Free College for Everyone!

Griff · 01-11-2015, 09:52 AM

Problems with this idea:

empty gesture by lame duck?
did you see what the Fed Gov did with Common Core?
are we going to decide which degrees qualify?
new program while old necessary programs are under attack?

Spexxvet · 01-11-2015, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

Problems with this idea:

empty gesture by lame duck?
did you see what the Fed Gov did with Common Core?
are we going to decide which degrees qualify?
new program while old necessary programs are under attack?

5. A way to illustrate how Democrats support policies for the common folk, and the repubican goal is to screw the common folk?*

*Because you know the repubicans will try to kill this.

I'll pay more taxes to improve our national aggregate education. I do not look forward to a country run by a bunch of Robert 'Bobby' Boucher Jr.s

monster · 01-11-2015, 10:14 AM

7. one size does not fit all

?

Undertoad · 01-11-2015, 10:40 AM

Quote:

3. are we going to decide which degrees qualify?

We did. The trades lost... again.

They're riding a pretty amazing oh-fer in the last few decades, of support and respect, and now in the name of helping the common folk.

Clodfobble · 01-11-2015, 10:45 AM

I hate this idea so very much. It will continue to drive up the cost of a generalized education which for many--if not most--is not the right life path. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to go to college if they can hack it, but definitely not everyone should go to college.

Trade schools, like UT said.

Griff · 01-11-2015, 10:50 AM

There is so much work in the trades around here now. Welders and electricians are turning down work... I heard last night that a kid I know with a learning disability turned down a full ride to Div I baseball school because he knew he'd never do the college work. A gas company is paying for him to learn welding.

tw · 01-11-2015, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Trade schools, like UT said.

That is what a community college now does.

Its not a mandate that one must go to college. It is what we did when we changed the system to make public high schools. Back then, high school was what a junior college is today.

Undertoad · 01-11-2015, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

That is what a community college now does.

Didn't we go over where you're not supposed to make shit up?

xoxoxoBruce · 01-11-2015, 01:57 PM

The loss of trade high schools was a cruel blow to the country. If free to all community college were to become a reality, I can see it going the way of for-profit prisons. That's an ugly picture.

infinite monkey · 01-11-2015, 02:03 PM

You can get a lot of trade training at your local JVS/Adult Division. HVAC, nursing, Tooling and Machining, Business and Medical Office.

The problem, as I see it, is the proprietary (for profits...your Miami Jacobs and the like) schools charging an arm and a leg for credits that will never transfer to a 4 year (say, if someone wants to go on after getting their LPN.)

I am under the impression that this free college IS for community colleges, and probably would also apply to Adult Ed at the JVS. Are there a lot of people in CC who have no business in college? Damn straight, but it's the lure of the low cost, being reimbursed for any Pell grant you didn't use, and the ability to use the ever-wily Cost Of Education to get federal backed student loans (with default rates through the roof)...it's the lure of the money. How about 'so, hey, you really want to go to CC to better yourself? Great, tuition and books are covered. No, you're not going to have extra loan money to buy a big screen. Still interested?'

It's not going to have much to do with your more elite schools; very few students, if any, get an associates from their CC then transfer to an Ivy League school.

Undertoad · 01-11-2015, 02:14 PM

It may be that trade schools are included in this, let us see what happens.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-11-2015, 02:28 PM

Probably a moot point with the current congress.

tw · 01-11-2015, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Didn't we go over where you're not supposed to make shit up?

Are you still hurting because your WMD myths were exposed as bogus znc obvious lies?

UT, you have been nasty lately for no good reason. In a previous post, I said *Apparently*. That was proof that I said "definitely"? No, You failed to read what was posted. You added a useful fact - as an adult would do. What was once six inspectors is now 80. But then you added cheapshots as an adult who is still a child would do.

Please stop posting emotions. They are irrelevant. Are inconsistent with who you have been. And contribute nothing to this thread.

tw · 01-11-2015, 10:23 PM

Once 8 years of education was sufficient. Radical to other civilized (ie European) nations was what America pioneered - 12 years of education. It created what the world had never seen - major innovations on a scale unmatched in history.

Making standard 14 years of education is only expanding on trends mostly pioneered in America.

We know from history that world leading nations invest more time in education. This expansion to 14 years is consistent with previous and proven trends. To say this is harmful is unjustified by facts - is supported here only by speculation.

If expanding a standard education to 14 years is harmful or destructive, then some facts must exist to contradict trends proven by history.

Griff · 01-12-2015, 05:24 AM

14+2=16

01-11-2015, 09:52 AM	#1
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Free College for Everyone! Problems with this idea: empty gesture by lame duck? did you see what the Fed Gov did with Common Core? are we going to decide which degrees qualify? new program while old necessary programs are under attack? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

01-11-2015, 10:14 AM	#3
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	7. one size does not fit all ? __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-11-2015, 10:45 AM	#5
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	I hate this idea so very much. It will continue to drive up the cost of a generalized education which for many--if not most--is not the right life path. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to go to college if they can hack it, but definitely not everyone should go to college. Trade schools, like UT said. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

01-11-2015, 10:50 AM	#6
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	There is so much work in the trades around here now. Welders and electricians are turning down work... I heard last night that a kid I know with a learning disability turned down a full ride to Div I baseball school because he knew he'd never do the college work. A gas company is paying for him to learn welding. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

01-11-2015, 01:57 PM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The loss of trade high schools was a cruel blow to the country. If free to all community college were to become a reality, I can see it going the way of for-profit prisons. That's an ugly picture. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-11-2015, 02:03 PM	#10
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	You can get a lot of trade training at your local JVS/Adult Division. HVAC, nursing, Tooling and Machining, Business and Medical Office. The problem, as I see it, is the proprietary (for profits...your Miami Jacobs and the like) schools charging an arm and a leg for credits that will never transfer to a 4 year (say, if someone wants to go on after getting their LPN.) I am under the impression that this free college IS for community colleges, and probably would also apply to Adult Ed at the JVS. Are there a lot of people in CC who have no business in college? Damn straight, but it's the lure of the low cost, being reimbursed for any Pell grant you didn't use, and the ability to use the ever-wily Cost Of Education to get federal backed student loans (with default rates through the roof)...it's the lure of the money. How about 'so, hey, you really want to go to CC to better yourself? Great, tuition and books are covered. No, you're not going to have extra loan money to buy a big screen. Still interested?' It's not going to have much to do with your more elite schools; very few students, if any, get an associates from their CC then transfer to an Ivy League school.

01-11-2015, 02:14 PM	#11
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It may be that trade schools are included in this, let us see what happens.

01-11-2015, 02:28 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Probably a moot point with the current congress. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-11-2015, 10:23 PM	#14
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Once 8 years of education was sufficient. Radical to other civilized (ie European) nations was what America pioneered - 12 years of education. It created what the world had never seen - major innovations on a scale unmatched in history. Making standard 14 years of education is only expanding on trends mostly pioneered in America. We know from history that world leading nations invest more time in education. This expansion to 14 years is consistent with previous and proven trends. To say this is harmful is unjustified by facts - is supported here only by speculation. If expanding a standard education to 14 years is harmful or destructive, then some facts must exist to contradict trends proven by history.

01-12-2015, 05:24 AM	#15
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	14+2=16 __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

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