God? Faith?

[Dunlavy]

It does leave me thinking. If I AM god, why am I only appeased with cheesecake? Hmm, it seems if that is true, then every belief is wrong! Want into heaven? gimme some cheesecake. ^_^ Dunlavy's cheesecake shrine.

[lookout123]

Els (and associated others) - sorry, you're right - i did phrase the poll in a monotheistic fashion. didn't mean to exclude you, so thanks for overlooking my error.

i didn't start the poll so that i could climb on my soap box. i don't expect anyone in here to accept or be swayed by my post, it was simply my reaction to labrat's post. carry on, i know there are quite afew people here who have very strong beliefs in ________. i like to hear they "why"?

[Wombat]

To me, god is the universe and everything in it. That is of course a massive over-simplification but words are very limiting when it comes to theology. So, anyway, this means that I am a part of god, and so is everyone else. This really blurs the boundaries of "me", in fact I'd rather say "us" and "we" than "me" or "I". Anything I do affects everything else, and anything you do affects me. We are all part of the same system, affecting each other. If I help you I'm helping myself, and if I hurt you I'm hurting myself. For all these reasons I voted "God plays an active role in my life", but this does NOT mean I pray, or hear voices telling me what to do, or go to church (in fact I'm very much against organised religion).

[Dunlavy]

Wait, so if it's everything in it, does that mean people are praying to themselves?! Egocentric SOB's!

[404Error]

Originally Posted by Dunlavy

What would I put if I believe in a higher force, but don't necessarily view it as "god"?

Uh..."Hi, my name is Dunlavy and I'm an alcoholic"?

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by BigV

God, I hope not. Wait, does that make it so then? Magical, miraculous, mysterious, certainly, but I would be disappointed to think that I am the very pinnacle of creation. I think we disagree on a little more than just terminology here, Els. I would like to hear more from you.

There is no pinnacle of Creation...all portions are equal. Manifested in differing ways externally, certainly, but fundamentally...the same.

Matter is energy made tangible, at least, to our particular senses. Energy is the basis of everything. Ultimately, energy is all there is. Our particular gift is our mind, matter made self-aware. The trick is to not get overly caught up in this one plane; not be totally confined by your "five senses", so that you become unable to interact with the All. The quest for the ability to be more aware, more interactive with things that you do not normally interact with is the basis of spirituality. Faith is a part of that. You have to have faith that you *can*, in fact, see and know more than the here and now.

Many things are hidden, but not nonexistent. It is really, really hard to get in tune with those things, and most people spend a lifetime trying. I know I'm working at it.

The book I recommend most to people is called "The Holographic Universe". It is the closest thing I have yet found that summarizes, as a mostly scientific theory, how all of this works. Believe it or not, it was reading this that finally persuaded me that a spiritual pursuit (in my case, Wicca) could actually yield results.

[Beestie]

I was raised Catholic but have since shunned the formal structure of the faith. I believe in God in a religious sense but also in a philosophical sense. Its the most logical answer to the question: what was the first thing to exist?

All this stuff (us and everything around us) came from somewhere or something. God is as good an answer as anything else I can come up with.

So, I believe in God for two reasons. One because my faith provides a structure to my life that I am comfortable with and two, God is an easy answer to a question that, in all likelihood, will never be answered.

Lastly, people who don't believe in God can't prove me wrong any more than I can prove them wrong which is why I don't feel compelled to defend my belief in God nor do I feel compelled to convince others that he exists. I derive no comfort from sharing my belief in the unprovable with others nor do I feel alienated if I am in the company of agnostics or athiests.

[LabRat]

Unfortunately, I only have the 'net at work, so I can't always post with as much thought as I'd like when I'm trying to do it without getting caught Please bear with my sometimes incomplete trains of thought... That being said,

"Faith is a choice to believe in the absence of evidence" Exactly. Which is MY problem. I find it so difficult sometimes to just believe. I think it's human nature to doubt. Personally for me, I think it's because I don't really like (?) the traditional Christian theology. I was taught growing up that God is omnipotent, all knowing, all seeing. He always has been, is, and will be. He made us, therefore knows everything about us and EVERYONE from Adam and Eve to the very last person EVER. SO, my main problem is, (i think i mentioned this in the abortion thread) if he knew we were going to sin, and fall short of his expectations, etc. etc. why'd he bother? He already knows if we are going to 'take Jesus into our hearts and accept him as our own Lord and Savior' or we're not and therefor end up in 'Hell'. Why didn't he just make perfect beings in the first place?? I feel like we are just his little gerbils in a cage, for his personal enjoyment. He already KNOWS were going to fail, yet he made us anyway. Sick little dude, that God.

I believe too, that everything happens for a reason, and we don't (or can't)know that reason. BigV's explaination I think would be, don't worry, you may not get it now, but there is a method to God's madness. Which is comforting to him. My explaination is, Shit happens. Life isn't fair. I live by the law of averages I guess. For every 'good' thing that happens to someone, a 'bad' thing must also happen, either to that same person, or another. And, because this world is ruled by ramdomness and entropy?, the good and bad things all happen randomly to those in it. That's why some people seem to have good luck, and others bad, no matter how much they 'derserve' one or the other. I guess I feel like it's human nature to want to be comforted by the knowledge that there is a REASON for everything. And religion serves that perpose, giving a reason (God's (or who ever's) will) for what happens that we don't understand. I am comforted in my belief of Randomness, BigV in his belief that God has a plan. We both use it to go about our daily business so we don't go crazy trying to figure out why bad things happen to undeserving people. He feels that God is looking out for him, I feel like I am just in the right place at the right time He thanks God for his blessings, and I thank 'whoever' for my thus far good luck in life. If something 'bad' happens, he says, God, I don't know why, but I trust you have a reason, I say, well shit. that sucks. but look at all the good things that have happened to me, I guess it's only fair I get some crappy stuff too. We both go on and try to make the best out of what doesn't make sense.

Or, maybe I'm just loopy.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Elspode

There is no pinnacle of Creation...all portions are equal. Manifested in differing ways externally, certainly, but fundamentally...the same.

Aw, don't start that PETA crap again. :p

Originally Posted by LabRat

I actually am currently struggling with whether or not I should start taking my 2 yr old to church or not. It did me 'good' learning the golden rule etc., and now like Glatt I live a "good Christian life" in general partly because of lessons learned young. So far tho, I have decided not to because I feel that she will emulate me and learn what I teach her by my actions (being a 'good person, sharing, not stealing, helping those in need, being honest with others) even without going to church,

Doing the right thing and feeling the kid will follow your lead might work IF you take the time and trouble to explain there are other possible choices. The kid sees what you did but may not be fully aware of what you could have but chose not to do. Sooner or later they are going to think of these other options and will be better off if they are aware that you thought of and rejected those options.
Seems every kid at some point feels they are the first one, in the history of man, to make these discoveries.

[God]

Shouldnt the statements read "Jesus" instead of Me?

I let the kid take care of business lately. I'm still here, just busy trying to figure out my new computer.

God

[slang]

Looks like God has the last word for the night.

[Elspode]

As well She should!

[404Error]

Oh, Els.....not you too?

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by LabRat

SO, my main problem is, (i think i mentioned this in the abortion thread) if he knew we were going to sin, and fall short of his expectations, etc. etc. why'd he bother? He already knows if we are going to 'take Jesus into our hearts and accept him as our own Lord and Savior' or we're not and therefor end up in 'Hell'. Why didn't he just make perfect beings in the first place??

He did. And he gave them free will. They chose to disobey him, and screwed it up for the rest of us. This willfull disobedience is the "Original Sin".

I feel like we are just his little gerbils in a cage, for his personal enjoyment. He already KNOWS were going to fail, yet he made us anyway. Sick little dude, that God.

Life isn't the destination, it's the journey.

God didn't create man to fail, but through making the wrong choices, we do. And this is a huge part of what faith is about. You choose to believe or not. If it was proven to you, faith would not be necessary.

I believe too, that everything happens for a reason, and we don't (or can't)know that reason. BigV's explaination I think would be, don't worry, you may not get it now, but there is a method to God's madness. Which is comforting to him. My explaination is, Shit happens. Life isn't fair.

You're absolutely right. Life isn't fair, and shitty things happen to really good, moral, Godly people. These are life lessons. Something good will come of it, even if it's good to someone else. You didn't get that job? Someone else did, and maybe they needed it more than you did.

I live by the law of averages I guess. For every 'good' thing that happens to someone, a 'bad' thing must also happen, either to that same person, or another. And, because this world is ruled by ramdomness and entropy?, the good and bad things all happen randomly to those in it. That's why some people seem to have good luck, and others bad, no matter how much they 'derserve' one or the other. I guess I feel like it's human nature to want to be comforted by the knowledge that there is a REASON for everything. And religion serves that perpose, giving a reason (God's (or who ever's) will) for what happens that we don't understand. I am comforted in my belief of Randomness, BigV in his belief that God has a plan. We both use it to go about our daily business so we don't go crazy trying to figure out why bad things happen to undeserving people. He feels that God is looking out for him, I feel like I am just in the right place at the right time He thanks God for his blessings, and I thank 'whoever' for my thus far good luck in life. If something 'bad' happens, he says, God, I don't know why, but I trust you have a reason, I say, well shit. that sucks. but look at all the good things that have happened to me, I guess it's only fair I get some crappy stuff too. We both go on and try to make the best out of what doesn't make sense.

Or, maybe I'm just loopy.

No, I don't think you're loopy at all. It's just a different point of view.

[LabRat]

Ugh, see, that's my problem...If perfect means having free will (therefore destined to fail) then why did he make us with free will? He knew we were going to fail when he chose to give us the option of thinking for ourselves. I guess I can't (at this time) get over the fact that he CHOSE to make us so that we were destined to fail. So now all he does is watch us try to obey him to the best of our meager abilities, and (I picture) him laughing at our sad little attempts to be 'God like'.

Quote OC: "Life isn't the destination, it's the journey. " I totally agree, something that became painfully aware to me when my dad died at 52 when I was 22. Of course, this was probably also the point in my life where I (unconsiously) came up with my little personal theology. The whole 'God has a plan' bit that our church friends were consoling my family with just rang hollow with me. He busted his ass his whole life, and finally was gettting to the point where he could enjoy some of the fruits of his labors, and BAM. Dead. Yeah, someone got some new retinas, and skin grafts or whatever, but really, was denying him what he 'deserved' worth that?? (sorry, 7 years later I guess I am still pretty bitter and emotional.) My faith apparently wasn't strong enough to get me thru and coming up with my own personal philospohy allowed me to come to peace with the unfairness of life (at least partially, apparently). I guess it's in my being to question EVERYTHING. Drives my husband nutso.