Too big or too small? (nsfw)

[Sundae]

I don't know that this should be about personal taste.
As long as models are healthy then they should be free to ply their trade.

I do think this should be about the fraud of the fashion industry, who make exquisite clothes which are lauded around the world but could only ever, EVER look the same IRL on a woman who has the same frame as a runway model.

It's not high art. It's clothes.
If you can only make clothes as art then you need to drape them on a few sticks and show them in a gallery. Or admit you are making performance art.

If you want to make clothes for women then at least acknowledge the size and shape you are creating for. I'm not saying make clothes for fat birds. Just for healthy women.

And don't think all healthy women are 5'11" and weigh less than 100lb.

I wonder how many fashion designers fit into sample sizes?

[TheMercenary]

to Sundae. I can't agree more. The place I first noticed the manipulation of fashion as a man is when Victoria's Secret started putting up sizes on their bras, what fits as a 34B is now a 34C, when in fact it really is still just a 34B. Pissed me off big time as in my younger days I knew my wife's sizes and would easily spend a few hundred dollars on her when I returned from deployments, for her BD or for X-mas. It only got worse. Then they started to call a 34B a 36B when it really was still a 34B. What horse shit.

[Aliantha]

I see two schools here. There's the proponents for the caveman and then the modern man/woman. They seem to be at odds with each other.

I remember when I was in my early 20's and pregnant, being told by a friend that I should put on a little makeup before my partner came home so I looked 'nice'. I asked her why I didn't look nice without it. She waffled on about some bullshit, but I didn't buy it. I still don't really.

I honestly think men have just as many image pressures as women, it's just that they handle them in different ways, and if you don't think women judge men by their looks and outward appearance then you're blind. And if you don't think men judge each other then you're even blinder. Again, maybe not by the same standards, but it's there.

Why is the rate of suicide across the board almost always higher in men than women? If that's not a sign of pressure I don't know what is.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

It didn't. But then look at Lousie Brooks. Tastes and fashion come and go. Be happy with who you are, is my advice to us.

More hot skinny chicks from the Roaring 20s here

The skinny look came in towards the end of WWI - until then buxom was the bare minimum and voluptuous was the ideal. I've read that the rationing during the war kind of forced this ... but this doesn't explain why it stuck on for so long.

Originally Posted by Sundae

I do think this should be about the fraud of the fashion industry, who make exquisite clothes which are lauded around the world but could only ever, EVER look the same IRL on a woman who has the same frame as a runway model.

It's not high art. It's clothes.
If you can only make clothes as art then you need to drape them on a few sticks and show them in a gallery. Or admit you are making performance art.

If you want to make clothes for women then at least acknowledge the size and shape you are creating for. I'm not saying make clothes for fat birds. Just for healthy women.

And don't think all healthy women are 5'11" and weigh less than 100lb.

I wonder how many fashion designers fit into sample sizes?

This, doubled.

I've seen an interview with some fashion designer, pushing the line that they have to use super-thin models because their clothes look best on such bodies.

In that case, sir, you are doing a shithouse job of designing clothes. If they need to be worn by an extreme bodyshape to look good, you've done a bad job.

[Aliantha]

During the 20's it was very fashionable to be stick thin.

Think about all those flappers in drop waist dresses and waif haircuts. In fact, women even bound their breasts in an effort to make their clothes sit better. No one wanted their beads sliding to the outside of their breasts. That'd just look silly.

[it]

argh, evil corporations looking to sell stuff... there choice of models for advertisement has nothing to do with the fact people buy those more frequenetly, its all just there brainwashing attempt! corporations don't want to make money, there just trying to make us feel bad about ourselves..

look, man have less pressure because women have a larger diversity of opinions about what counts as hot (research linked in my post above), and for the same reason the pressure is less affective - i trust that it is a well known fact that man do like scoring and that looks contribute to the suceed rate of that happening - but if you want to be a good looking man, there are a lot of ways you can go, and chances are you already fit a good number of women's profiles.

women don't get that luxery, which i'm sure would have being bad enough if it just stayed about getting men. but at some point in our anthropological past, the beast took a life of its own, and now takes an immense inflouence of the social status of every female from teenhood to menopause.

so which standard is shaping the other one? are women judging themselves based on what attracts man or are man deciding what looks good based on what women scale themselves by?

there was a research published on American Minds suggesting that its more of the later: both man and women where asked to rate people of the opposite sex in either a closed or open setting. the scores women gave man barely changed, but man where a lot more inflouneced by what others - both man and women - thought is attractive. we are not only unanimous in what we find attractive, we are fucking sheepish about it.

TLR: science variifies monster's man-hating comment to be completely true.

[Aliantha]

So men are still just doing what women tell them to do then? lol

[it]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

So men are still just doing what women tell them to do then? lol

when it comes to what pumps blood to our members, pretty much - men even out the rating they'll give women with all the opinions around them.

so whenever a women points out to her husband/boyfriend another women she thinks is hot, she just changed her husband/partner's taste based on her opinion.

so the next day, when one of them goes to his/her job as a casting director for an advertisement, regardless of which one it is, it will be highly inflounced by what she said.

then that ad shows up on a billboard and some 12 year old girl looking from the back sit of a car driving by, see's this model being glorified and decides she wants to look just like her.

...and the cycle goes on.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by traceur

so whenever a women points out to her husband/boyfriend another women she thinks is hot, she just changed her husband/partner's taste based on her opinion.

Wow. Men are so easily influenced.
What a bunch of stupids, eh?

No.

In my experience a man never changes his opinion on what is hot and what is not based on his partner's opinion.
He bases it on his penis.
The peter-meter if you will.

YMMV.

[it]

really? how often have men disagreed with you when you pointed out that someone's hot?

remember, not asked them if they think she's hot and then told them your opinion, not tested them, just pointed out.

[Sundae]

Lots.

I've had very different opinions on who is hot and who's not with the men in my life.
To the extent we have disagreed in fantasy threesome conversations.

[DanaC]

Watching tv with different groups of people gives a few interesting indicators. However bitchy women are about other women, if you want a truly bitchy judgemental commentary on women watch tv with a group of lads.

[it]

Originally Posted by Sundae

To the extent we have disagreed in fantasy threesome conversations.

interesting.

me and my xwife actually agreed (on DanaC).
so dana if your ever happen to be in canada and are look for a bi-curious women who finds you attractive enough to have sex with but not too threatening to be willing to share her boyfriends withyou, now you know who to contact.

back to topic: your findings contradict the study, more research needed.

[Clodfobble]

As far as the reason women can find a much wider range of male "looks" to be attractive, it's simple, but double-layered. First, what does success (money) look like? Well, it can be a lot of things. The nerd can be very successful and wealthy, or his nerdiness can make him incapable of functioning in a group and thus unable to climb a career ladder in any significant way.

But beyond that, there's a lot of evidence that women choose attractiveness based on pheromones and other genetic traits that have very little to do with how the man actually appears. In one study, they had groups of people mingle in a room after none were allowed to shower or use any body products for a day or so. Then they ranked who they found most to least attractive, and did some blood work... and by and large, people--moreso the women, but both sexes to a degree--were found to have ranked as the most attractive the ones who had the most opposite immune system from themselves. (I'm susceptible to bacterial infections, you're not; I have lots of flu antibodies, you have few--let's get it on!)

[Gravdigr]

Re: Your Ms. Brooks:

She ain't bony, but she could sure use a sandwich.

That said, I would not run from Louise.

I wouldn't get with any of those chicks in the top row. Well, maybe Heidi, if she'd pick up fifteen or twenty pounds. They all look like losing cancer patients.

That whole bottom row looks like a smorgasboard.