Why is everyone so angry?

[lumberjim]

I'm sure you just annoyed him into giving you the 2nd ticket. I'd have impounded your car. punk.

[elSicomoro]

I can't see the second ticket standing up in court based on your description of the incident, Mari.

My luck finally ran out with St. Louis Parking Enforcement last week...$10 expired meter ticket. *shrugs* Oh well...

Speed trap cop and I have had a run in once before over a totally unrelated matter. We are NOT pals! Still, I don't see how he expects that second ticket to hold up. I guess he was thinking I'd just knuckle under and pay because that's what most people do. But I have far more time than money, and I'll happily show up in traffic court. I can't wait to hear speed trap cop's story: "Well, you see, your honor, I sit outside the post office and write down license plate numbers of all the 500 people in this town who don't stop at that ridiculous, unnessary stop sign while picking up their mail, and when the time is right, I give 'em their tickets. Generally I consult a ouija board, but on the night in question, the voices in my fillings told me to go for the collar!"

Yeah, right!

[xoxoxoBruce]

The post office is situated at the intersection of two one way roads at a stop sign.

The street the post office is on is a dead end. He could have cornered me easily!

Huh? One way dead end?

[wolf]

I think she means T intersection. I know quite a few people whose language is imprecise in describing the same thing, in the same way.

LOL! Its "SO Manitou" as our mayor likes to say.

Here's a sketch (I'm not much of an artist)

Is that what they call it? A "T" intersection? It looks like a "T", yes. Anyhow, you can see the temptation to not come to a complete stop when making a right hand turn.

[xoxoxoBruce]

you can see the temptation to not come to a complete stop when making a right hand turn.

I can see that stop sign should have an "except right turn" sign under it. There is absolutely no reason to stop there (for right turns) except possibly pedestrians.
But the law remains that you must come to a full stop at the stop sign, you can't just ignore it.
The proper procedure is to;
1- Turn on your right turn signal.
2- Come to a complete stop.
3- Check for pedestrians.
4- Make the turn and stop.
5- Put on your 4-way flashers.
6- Set the parking brake.
7- Check for traffic before opening the door.
8- Exit the vehicle.
9- Wrap your logging chain around the bumper.
10- Wrap the other end around the stop sign support.
11- Get back in your vehicle, release brake, turn off 4-ways.
12- Turn on your left turn signal and check your mirror.
13- Accelerate to the dead end and perform a bootleggers turn.
14- Drive home (stopping for mail, optional).

Oh, Lord, Bruce! Damned if I'm not tempted! Let's see, 3:00 am... Speed Trap Cop is usually over at the 7-11 eating donuts and flirting with the night clerk. I just might be able to pull it off! Wonder if that sign is just stuck in the earth or if they poured cement around it? hmmmm...

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by marichiko

The SECOND ticket is the one that feels like harassment to me. I'll make the damn town spend $100 prosecuting me over it. They can pay speed trap cop's salary to come testify against me; they can pay a judge for his time to hear the case in court; they can pay the DA's salary to press forward with the case; and they can pay for my court appointed lawyer if it comes to that!

Isn't making the town pay effectively wasting your own money? If the current Stop sign is pointless (and ineffective by the sound of it) then shouldn't it be changed?

If you get the sign changed so that you don't have to stop when turning right (I think that was suggested, bear with me if not, its all the wrong side of the road for me) then you won't get caught again. How about writing a letter to the council to get it changed, detailing how much police time is being wasted to no effect. If this produces no response you could highlight it to a local paper , perhaps encourage them to take it up and run a campaign. There must be plenty of otherwise conscientious drivers caught in the same trap.

I don't know if these sort of things work in the US, but in the UK you can usually embarrass local authorities enough to get them to review situations, even if the changes are rejected. At the very least raising public awareness of the waste of police time might stop them using this corner as an easy target for crime statistics.

[xoxoxoBruce]

There must be plenty of otherwise conscientious drivers caught in the same trap.

The problem with local police in small towns, where they know just about everybody, is enforcement is selective. If they evenhandedly enforced that particular stop sign there would be a chance of getting it changed. But if it's a money maker, mostly from tourists and the less desirable elements (not mentioning any names but she's probably lucky they didn't shoot her in the knee), then there's no way in hell they'll change it.

[BigV]

It's not so much a waste of her own money as it is...a maintenance expense. It costs something, money/time/effort to engage in the process of trimming back the encroachment of the government's grasp. I paid good money to put in some lovely juniper bushes in our rockery and paid effort and money again to cut them back last weekend and haul away the trimmings.

In both cases, left unchecked, the growth will continue until it takes over the whole area, leaving no room for me, the owner, the boss, to move freely.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The problem with local police in small towns, where they know just about everybody, is enforcement is selective. If they evenhandedly enforced that particular stop sign there would be a chance of getting it changed. But if it's a money maker, mostly from tourists and the less desirable elements (not mentioning any names but she's probably lucky they didn't shoot her in the knee), then there's no way in hell they'll change it.

Precisely, Bruce! That stop sign is there to make money off tourists. Since the incident occurred, I have formed the habit of taking a few minutes every time I pick up my mail and watching the actions of other drivers at that same stop sign. So far, easily half the cars coming to that intersection don't pull to a complete stop. The one's going right almost never do.

Yes, I am an "undesirable element." I have gained a certain notoriety by going to city council meetings and demanding that they look into providing more low income housing for the elderly and disabled... Plus, I am in the process of ratting out the ax murderer to the world (and the DA), and the president of the local gardening club, who hasn't yet discovered that her new boy friend is really Devil Boy in disguise, has taken exception to this, so I am rather high profile in this small town. I'm lucky the cops didn't shoot me in BOTH knees!

As far as spending money fighting the tickets, it won't cost me a thing to do that. I have gobs of time to go down to court, and due to my income level, if the matter ever actually went to trial, they have to pay for a court appointed lawyer for me.

[lumberjim]

yeah, sounds like you DID annoy him(them) into giving you the second ticket. they probably have some affillitaion with the axe murderer's new honey. small towns have their pros and cons, no? if you're labeled as 'the crazy lady' in a town meeting, there's going to be repercussions. direct or indirect. you should beat the second ticket without much problem, me thinks. you'll have to be straight as an arrow going forward, though. don;t let your registration or inspection expire, dont violate any local ordinances, etc. Life is a popularity contest. sounds like you're losing.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

yeah, sounds like you DID annoy him(them) into giving you the second ticket. they probably have some affillitaion with the axe murderer's new honey. small towns have their pros and cons, no? if you're labeled as 'the crazy lady' in a town meeting, there's going to be repercussions. direct or indirect. you should beat the second ticket without much problem, me thinks. you'll have to be straight as an arrow going forward, though. don;t let your registration or inspection expire, dont violate any local ordinances, etc. Life is a popularity contest. sounds like you're losing.

Thanks for the advise and the happy thought. Actually, the town mayor sort of seems to like me, so I've got THAT much in my favor, anyhow. I don't go to city council and act crazy. I prepare statements with quotes from Housing and Urban Authority (HUD), wait to speak until I'm called on and thank council for their time. I have been persistant as a bulldog, though, which has somewhat raised my profile around here.

[Trilby]

I'm not angry.