How stubborn we can be

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Quite, sm. You marry someone for who they are. If you don't like it, you shouldn't have married them.

While true, I don't think that bit of wisdom applies in this case.

Its a basic human responsibility to clean the damn toilet. Cleanliness in general is a basic human dignity and I certainly don't think that having an expectation of at least a sanitary level of tidiness is being unfair/bitchy/suffering-from-esteem-issues/obsessive-compulsive or even out of the ordinary.

But I will say this: you (SV) are making awfully easy for him to get away with it. When you buy a house, get ready to do ALL the yardwork and when you have kids, get ready to do ALL the diapers in addition to all the stuff you already do in addition to working. And cooking and packing Arsen five course lunches. And ALL the laundry. Plus the dog. Ten years from now, you will look back at today and wish you had it that easy again.

[lookout123]

staceyv - i enjoy your posts in here. you sound pretty nice and fun. that being said.... Grow the fuck up!

Arsen is a piece of shit - send his ass back to Russia. being a a lazy disgusting pig willing to wallow in one's own filth is repulsive, but it remains one's right. the bigger issue is that he is so lazy and worthless that he can't even overcome his natural tendencies out of love and respect for his wife? BS!

if he is this overthetop lazy don't count on ever finding a time where you can be a stay at home mom or live in any other way than you already are. if cleaning up his own toilet is too much work for him, there is exactly ZERO chance that he will ever be fruitful and successful in any job.

show yourself some love - you would be much better off without him. he already knows this fact, he is just hoping and praying that you don't figure it out.

[OnyxCougar]

I don't want to do my half until he does his, because what's the point?

The point was obvious and it distresses me that you missed it.

This POINT is, Stacey, that since Arsen makes promises he doesn't keep, (RED FLAG: can't trust his word! Unreliable!) you should at the very least keep your own promise. Keep your own word. Like grown ups do.

A clean kitchen and a filthy bathroom? Orderly bedroom and disgusting living room? This place would still be depressingly dirty and not clean enough to have company, plus, I might be tempted to do it all after I get my half done.

So you'd rather live in complete filth and squalor rather than 1/2 filth and squalor because...why again??

I have to stand strong on this, because if I'm already cleaning the whole apartment, cooking, etc, etc, he wouldn't feel like he was getting any benefit from me being a full-time housewife-

Um....hello... let's focus on Stacey, hmm?? Stacey doesn't like dirty house. Stacey doesn't like filth and squalor. Stacey likes a clean, tidy house. Stacey works like a dog at work, comes home tired. Stacey wanted a little help from the person that is supposed to be her partner.

He listened, made promises to Stacey, and then didn't follow through. Stacey felt let down. Hurt. Broken promises do that. Then, when she points out to him that he had made promises, he tells her he's tired of her bitching at him. (RED FLAG: HE IS INSENSITVE TO YOUR NEEDS AND IS DISRESPECTING YOU AND YOUR MARRIAGE BY BLOWING YOUR VALID REQUESTS OFF.)

like when women won't screw a guy until they get married..

That's usually a moral choice. And I'll leave that statement there.

and,the fact that it's just plain not fair,

Life is not fair. It's not fair that you're trying to change Arsen and make him take personal responsiblity for his own living conditions and how he treats your wants and needs. (RED FLAG: HE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT AND YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM GIVE A SHIT.)

and I really don't have the time/ energy.

That's because you work your ass off and you deserve help around the house.


Enough red flags? If this was your best friend, and she was telling you all this shit, you'd be all about "Leave the bastard." And you know it.



If I was Arsen, I'd be loving life right now. I have a woman that will fuck me when I want, doesn't make me clean up after myself, doesn't make me hold to my word (even after I've proven multiple times my word means nothing), cooks, cleans up when she finally gets tired of looking at it, walks the dog...shit. All I have to do is deal with her bitchyness and cramps, and go out to buy her chips occasionally. Hell yeah!

[lookout123]

and I love him because I can be a raging bitch, throw things, be stubborn, lose my temper, complain, walk around with messy hair and no makeup, and call him "buttface", and he still loves me.

this is how any normal relationship is. i love my wife absolutely and she loves me. she doesn't have to have her hair and makeup done, she gets bitchy sometimes, you haven't seen temper until you've met her, and ...
these things are called being human. he isn't doing you any favors - he is taking advantage for letting you believe he is going above and beyond by "putting up" with these aspects of your personality.

from your descriptions of him he is a selfish, selfcentered, lazy piece of shit who is praying every single moment of every day that his beautiful wife doesn't get wise to the fact that he is worthless.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by lookout123

from your descriptions of him he is a selfish, selfcentered, lazy piece of shit who is praying every single moment of every day that his beautiful wife doesn't get wise to the fact that he is worthless.

You give him too much credit. He takes her for granted. He isn't praying that she doesn't get wise. He thinks so little of her that it doesn't even occur to him that she will ever get wise.

[lookout123]

you're probably right. but the important question is where were the young ladies like stacey when i was on the open market? all the girls i could find at the time were completely different. sure, they were attractive - like stacey, but they weren't interested in commitment, all they wanted was a casual sex partner who they could share with their roommates, with no strings attached...oh well, we all had our struggles i suppose.

[mrnoodle]

Oh well. Fact of the matter is, when you want something to change badly enough, you'll change it. The discussion is all well and good, but when you really want a clean house and a partner that pulls his weight, you'll make it happen. Till then, you won't. And that's all good, as long as you realize that the only person who can really direct your life is ewe.

[staceyv]

I love him for many other qualities he has- like the fact that he is always KIND to me, he doesn't overreact when I have my little temper tantrums, and he accepts me as I am. We have fun when we go out, he makes me laugh, he'll go to the store for me at 2 am if I "need" chips, and he doesn't complain a lot. He is also a great salesperson and he lets me hold all of his money so he won't piss it away, he never wants to buy anything for himself, and he will send off every extra dime that he makes to pay off debt.[/

What about this stuff?? Are you saying I should DIVORCE my husband because he is lazy?
Did I mention that I smoke cigarettes(HUGE turnoff), we are sexually compatible because we both only like to screw every 7-10 days(most guys want to screw ALL the time and it bugs me to the point of breaking up with them, not to mention, I only let him screw me if he chases me around the house, rips my panties off and forces himself on me), and I have no career goals other than to be a housewife and do volunteer work (HUGE turnoff).

I'm a piece of work, too. I've dated a LOT of guys. I either had to act fake, screw them when I wasn't in the mood, and/or answer their stupid questions about what I want to do with my life.

Do you really think he's so bad that I should divorce him??!!

[jaguar]

all they wanted was a casual sex partner who they could share with their roommates, with no strings attached...oh well, we all had our struggles i suppose.

Just couldn't help it could you?

[lookout123]

i'm not saying divorce him. i am saying to evaluate this situation. is it just this one little area that you find him to be lacking? most people i've encountered who exhibit the behaviors you are talking about let this type of thing creep into other areas of life. they are always waiting for their big break, and when it doesn't come it is someone else's fault or it wasn't what they wanted to do anyway. someone who won't even clean his own excrement from a toilet is not exactly a go getter who is going to provide a stable life where you can rest easy in your ability to be a housewife or pursue whatever it is that you want.

sex? so what, you're not that active. the older you get the less important it is to have sex 2-3 times everyday. it works for guys too. something about quality over quantity. and maybe.. just maybe if you weren't so damned tired, depressed, and disgusted by certain cleanliness issues you would find you actually do want to have sex more - but whatever floats your boat in that area.

i don't like cigarrettes. hate 'em actually. my wife smokes when she drinks. so what? does that eliminate you from the running for a guy who will treat you right?

career goals? you want to be a stay at home and take care of your family? how the hell is that a turn-off? i think that is pretty damn attractive, actually. someone who isn't going to always compare their career with mine, who is willing to do something that i don't want to do?

so what if you've dated LOTS of guys. as long as your first date conversation isn't..." so after screwing john for a couple weeks, i fucked dwayne for awhile...or was jason in between?" you should be just fine. most guys you are going to date aren't exactly saints, so they probably don't expect you to be virginal. in fact, they might just like someone who is confident in knowing what she wants, how she wants it, and when she wants it.

but talking about who to replace him with is putting the cart way out in front. you've got to get your head on straight and develop some positive self esteem here. how can you expect someone to love, honor, and respect you, when it doesn't sound like you really love and respect yourself? that is probably why arsen is able to treat you like a doormat right now - because he can. because for some strange reason you think it is ok. and the even stranger thought that it will just, kind of "be ok" someday when you can be a stay at home.

edit: maybe i'm making some unfair assumptions here. all i know is that i had an ex-wife that broke my selfconfidence to the point that i thought i deserved the shitty situation i was living in. it took some serious alone-time to put myself back together. i see some similarities here.

[mrnoodle]

Screw. What a romantic word.

I don't think anyone here is the authority on who you should or should not spend your life with. However, the limited information we've received tends to be negative. He won't keep the house even remotely sanitary, you have to safeguard the rent money or he will piss it away, he (used to) spend all his emotional capital on another woman even though he was with you, he doesn't meet this need or that need. You, on the other hand, play power games with towels hanging on the shower and nastygrams written on the seat of the shitter. You'll let him "make love" to you only in mock rape scenarios every week and a half, and then only out of gratitude that he hasn't dumped you because of your propensity to "be a raging bitch, throw things, be stubborn, lose my temper, complain, walk around with messy hair and no makeup, and call him "buttface."

The positives? You have fun when you go out, he buys you stuff when you "need" it, doesn't buy anything for himself, and puts every spare cent he makes towards debt.

The last thing is a good "husband" quality. The preceding three are "boyfriend" qualities, and everything up to then is "codependent". Unless you're leaving out a major part of your relationship that you haven't shared with us (and that's certainly your right -- it's your personal life), it just sounds like you are getting a raw deal.

[staceyv]

Well, you guys are right. I'll probably accept any treatment from him. You know why? The best job skill I have is as a waitress and I HATE waitressing. He is my only hope of getting out of this rut. I can't manage going to school and working, and it's very difficult to impossible for me to get another job because I need time off every month for my period. If I don't have a man to take care of me, I am totally fucked. I already went through that- trying to support myself by waitressing. I was so behind on the bills, racked up so much credit card debt, I almost married an illegal Brazilian guy for $5,000. That's desperate. I don't want to do it on my own. I just can't. And I won't go and live with family like a bum. And I can't be with just any man. I have genuine feelings for Arsen and I'm attracted to him. So yeah, I am dependent on him for my financial security, and I am deathly afraid of having to support myself and be a waitress forever. All I want is for him to pay the bills and let me be domestic. I guess I can deal with any bad habits he has, because anything is better than being on my own, supporting myself as a waitress. He is helping me a lot, even now, by paying half of the bills and holding me at night. And I love him for being nice to me, and never making demands of me, and making me laugh. Even if he's never able to manage paying for everything, and I have to bring in some money, It's still a whole lot better than supporting myself waiting tables.
And I've already tried dating "successful" men. I even dated two millionares. One of them, I didn't trust for various reasons, and the other one was 44 and I just didn't want to kiss him. And I realized that I need to have REAL feelings for somebody to be with them, no matter how successful they were. So, I went for love instead of money and fell head over heels for Arsen. I still love him, and my life is better off with him than without him. So I guess I'd better get used to the idea of cleaning the whole apartment or living in filth, because I'm not leaving him...That doesn't mean I am a total pushover- he doesn't know how much I need him. I act pretty self-confident, because I know that being needy and dependent is NOT attractive. But yeah, the sad truth is, I feel like my life is going nowhere and I need a man to support me. Ugh.

[kerosene]

So, I guess the question you need to ask yourself is:

Do you hate the dirty mess and cleaning and shit worse than you hate struggling to support yourself? None of us can answer that question for you, but whichever you dislike less should pale in comparison to the other. I suppose that sounds sort of pathetic, but it is a normal human rationalization, in my book. Maybe it would help you to remind yourself of times in the past, where a dirty toilet sure as hell beats the shit you were dealing with back then. Yeah, again, maybe it sounds pathetic, but sometimes it is necessary to put your problems in perspective.

edit: I think you have already answered the first question with your explanation about your relationship with Arsen. You love him, and that is what matters to you. You won't leave him because you feel like the dirty toilets and shit are worth what you feel being with him. Am I right?

[lookout123]

dating millionaires? what the hell does that have to do with having a husband who can support you?

there are good husbands and fathers in this country who manage to love and support their families on $30,000 a year(and less). the person is more important than the paycheck. i was talking about certain personality types that share some common ground with your descriptions of arsen - they tend to go nowhere, because it is just too hard or they never catch their "lucky break".

you are mistaking your current husband for a good supporter because he can pay half the bills and doesn't abuse you. considering that he won't use the same towel to dry his face and ass after a shower, might we conclude that he is too lazy to even properly wipe his own ass?

you are mistaking the millionaires as good supporters because they have $$$.

it sounds like you are probably a good person and you deserve some happiness. you are carrying a lot of baggage, but the nice thing about bags? you can always set them down and leave them behind.

you constantly tell us that you are "just a waitress". what is wrong with being a waitress? if you enjoy it stick with it. especially if medical issues prevent you from doing anything else. or seek medical help so you can find another job. it really doesn't take a lot of skill to break into office work. it would require going to work every week, so you would have to deal with that. but anyway, this is more about your self esteem than anything.

you don't NEED arsen. you don't NEED a husband. it sounds like you want a husband and a traditional family life. good for you. i hope you get it. but anytime you think you desperately NEED something, you can count on it remaining just out of reach. you may not think you let him know how dependent you are on him, but you are only fooling yourself. no one would treat you that way unless they thought you were too dependent or afraid to break out on your own.

i'm not telling you that leaving your husband is the solution, but you are in an extremely unhealthy situation and they longer you let it go, the harder it will be to correct.

[footfootfoot]

Hey Staceyv,

Take a look at your keyboard. Three keys to the right of the "L" key should be one that says return.

Every now and then give it a little tap.