Plamegate and Iraqgate get the shaft: normenclature of scandals

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Tonchi

Just one more thing I need to clear up with you: I am not some degenerate liberal hippie type who protests any lawful and rightful military action. I detested Jane Fonda and I am not against War across the board. I was born on an Army base, both my parents were Army officers, and I don't lie cheat or steal or tolerate anybody who does. The problem I have is with stupid stupid people who have their own agenda taking the cream of our country into places where we have no business being so that they can get wiped off the face of history for NOTHING. And I believe Iraq will go down as the biggest Nothing in our history.

F*ckin' A, Tonchi.

Just being loud, obnoxious, and (most tiring of all) persistent, doesn't change wrong to right. Changing the history books doesn't make it right. Suppressing contrary views doesn't make it right.

This Great Country is big enough to hold misguided souls like UG and the rest of his dittoheads, but they are disproportionally represented due to the volume of their chicken little ravings and the real effect of their fearmongering.

The ghastly, criminal mismanagement of practically everything this administration has its fingerprints on is appalling. If GWB were such a humanitarian, why doesn't he START AT HOME? There are numerous opportunities for him to display his noblesse oblige in our own country. But no. And why not? Why is he so galactically hypocritical? Because it is less profitable. Because it is more visible, especially the mistakes. Because it doesn't jive with the agenda of those to whom he is beholden--big busine$$ and the religious fundamentalists who bury their heads in the sands of the past and righteously demand that everyone else do likewise.

He spends our blood and treasure so freely because it cost him little to accumulate it and therefore has proportionally little appreciation for how hard it is to come by. The deaths of the men and women--tragic almost beyond words for those whose loved ones are now gone--doesn't register with him. I find his political speechreading to the contrary unconvincing. His boggling explosion of our debt, his unconsionable acceleration of the imbalance of wealth and sacrifice in our nation is a wound so deep, the scar will be borne for generations.

I started to write that I hate GWB. I don't though. I don't believe he's evil, but I am certain he's in well over his head. The things he knows how to do, don't apply to the problems at hand. He knows loyalty, a good trait. But loyalty without accountability is cronyism. He knows determination, a good trait. But determination without vision is bullheadedness. He knows pride, a good trait. But pride without humility is hubris.

I am enormously saddened and infuriated that his incompetence in his leadership role is leading us rapidly downward in national economics, social progress, and world standing. It is a damn shame he has what it takes to get us into this mess, sadly, he doesn't have what it takes to get us out again.

[Happy Monkey]

Well put.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Sorry, but depleted uranium is harmless.

As long as it remains in a solid mass- ie an unfired shell. Depleted uranium is not completely non-radioactive. There remains impurities - radioactive uranium - within depleted uranium. Therefore military personal are advised to remain clear and avoid unnecessary contact with burning enemy amour from a depleted uranimum strike. Not that we know it is dangerous - just like lead paint, asbestos, berrylium copper, radium watches, and leaded gasoline. Those too were harmless.

[Undertoad]

It's not whether it's radioactive but how radioactive and what kind. DU radioactivity is low-level alpha particles. They can be stopped by a sheet of paper - or a layer of skin. They are much MUCH less dangerous than gamma radiation put out by, say, a nuke blast.

Toxicity of DU is more of a concern than its radioactivity. Like lead paint, DU is toxic. Thus, do not eat it. Otherwise you should be fine. But if you do, its toxic effect on your kidneys will be more harmful than the radiation from it.

No human cancer deaths are connected to DU.

[richlevy]

Isn't that what they say about Plutonium, that in addition to radioactivity it is also toxic?

Also, you do not have to 'eat lead' to get lead poisoning, so I would assume you can get DU poisoning through the environment. Like with a lot of environmental issues, the military probably will not act until any evidence is overwhelming.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Sorry, but depleted uranium is harmless.

Oh? The National Gulf War Veteran's Resource Center might be willing to give you a debate on that one.

[Tonchi]

Also, you do not have to 'eat lead' to get lead poisoning, so I would assume you can get DU poisoning through the environment. Like with a lot of environmental issues, the military probably will not act until any evidence is overwhelming.

Exactly, and if it remains in vaporized form mixed into the soils where it exploded, where crops are grown and wells are dug, where sheep and goats graze and children play, it is going to be tragic in its consequences. Vanity Fair did an expose on it, explained the science, the measurement of radiation, the military applications, and the time bomb ticking away in our VA system. Many people now believe that exposure to depleted uranium is the actual cause of the frustrating and unexplainable Gulf War Syndrome which has disabled or killed our men, but there is still no diagnosis which can prove or disprove this. Still, the only authority who is claiming that depleted uranium used in armor-piercing shells is harmless is the military machine which is sending people out to handle it. In the Vanity Fair article, one of the sources interviewed admitted that they would RATHER NOT use depleted uranium to make these munitions, but the fact was that the government made the conscious decision to do it anyway because there is nothing else known which gives us such an edge against other armies. So that's what it has come down to: the US military commanders value the efficiency of the armor-piercing shells over whatever collateral damage might occur, even if it means the deaths of our own men.

If this is the after-effect of some tank battles, ask yourself what the "bunker buster" bombs could produce for anybody downwind of that massive explosion.

[Undertoad]

Wow, you make it sound so scary! But it isn't.

The scare is enough to carry the story, though.

Hey, Tonchi! As long as its the ragheads' gardens, who cares? As for the time bomb in the VA system? You must be kidding me! Long before that time bomb ever explodes, the DOD will have writen a manual at least 5 inches thick, explaining why only two Gulf/Iraq War vets in the entire nation are actualy eligible for any medical treatment or other help due to depleted uranium exposure. These two individuals will be killed in a couple of apparently unrelated drive by shootings as they stand on street corners with their "Homeless Vet! Please Help!" signs.

Of course depleted uranium is harmless! And FEMA did a great job in New Orleans - broken levees just weren't their department. And there REALLY were WMD's in Iraq. And any and all documents that might call for an individual member of the government or even any governmental agency to be accountable to ANYBODY for ANYTHING will immediently be shredded in service of the war on terror.

Don't look at me, I'm Swiss!

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Wow, you make it sound so scary! But it isn't.

Not for people nowhere near it, at least.

[Tonchi]

As long as its the ragheads' gardens, who cares?

'Cause it's really bad karma, that's why

Yeah, your gummint knows what's best for you and they say everything's copasetic until years after it's too late to help anybody. Agent Orange wasn't even in the VA dictionary until a few years ago, and we can fully expect the same handling with our Gulf War(s) vets.

[Undertoad]

The government has also been mysteriously silent about pine tar. It's all around us - the children are even seen using it. And yet - nothing. Even the military remains silent - what are they covering up?

[elSicomoro]

Fucking George Brett and his damned pine tar...

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The government has also been mysteriously silent about pine tar. It's all around us - the children are even seen using it. And yet - nothing. Even the military remains silent - what are they covering up?

Nothing. You ever try to get pine tar off a white shirt? Forget it!

[Tonchi]

Hey, I come from the Tar Heel State, ya'll know We had to find all kinds of uses for the stuff. Did you know that not only was it used for caulking boats, they used to put it in open wounds? Of course, in the 1600's a lot of things seemed like a good idea at the time. Like arsenic in cosmetic face powder. Like using an infusion of tobacco for fevers. Mercury to cure syphilis. Gee whiz, we sure were ignorant once upon a time. Not like today, when we have all kinds of agencies to tell us what's good for us, and SAFE too.