The Benghazi Incident

[Adak]

The facts we know:

*four Americans were killed: 3 CIA (ex-Seal types) were there trying to secure the most dangerous weapons from the militias in Libyia, and our Ambassador to Libyia.

The CIA agents were told to evacuate - run away, from the attack on the Benghazi consulate. These three did not, they ran 1/3rd of a mile to get TO the consulate building that was under attack.

*repeated requests were made for help, as soon as the attack began. No help arrived until 14 hours later. We have a large air base that defended the City of Benghazi, one hour away, at Aviono, Italy. Their motto is "Anytime, Anywhere".



They were never asked to help.

*The attack lasted for 6 to 7 hours, with the last 2 hours or so, being monitored by a real time reconnaissance drone, which had no attack capability.

*Five days AFTER the attack, Susan Rice, our UN Ambassador, who knows NOTHING about the Benghazi attack, is repeating on several talk shows, info she's been given by the President: The attack was a demonstration against this video, that turned violent.

Everything she was told, was a lie. It never was understood to be a mere demonstration against a video - we're talking explosives, and mortars, etc. all used in the attack.

This is - the President doesn't want to lie, so he has Susan Rice lie for him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20334452

Now, Obama defends Rice for lying for him, and wants to promote her to Secretary of State, since Clinton is leaving that position.

John McCain, and a few other Senators have said "No!" won't approve Rice's nomination".

Obama says "that's outrageous! Wants to "take them on" in his fiery speech today, defending the lying mouthpiece he used, to deliver his message - Susan Rice.

IMO, Obama is a liar, who abandoned the Americans in our consulate in Benghazi, because he didn't want to admit that it was Al Qaeda affiliates and members, who were making the attack, before the election. That would make him look weak on national defense, to the voters.

Nixon and Clinton both faced impeachment, on FAR less egregious actions than what Obama is apparently guilty of.

[bluecuracao]

IMO, John McCain is a jackass.

He and his equally scummy cohort Sen. John Kyl have been pushing SB2109, a bill that would strip water rights from from the Hopi and Navajo nations. They want to give them away to their corporate mining and and energy friends.

So, I really don't care what McCain's position is on Susan Rice. He and Kyl should be the ones to be impeached.

[SamIam]

Wow! McCain's attempt to deprive the Hopi and Navajo people of their water rights is happening right in my own backyard, and I wasn't even aware of it. Thanks for the heads up, Blue!

From Native News Network:

S.2109 and the "Settlement Agreement" deny the Navajo and Hopi people the resources and means to bank their own waters, or to recharge their aquifers depleted and damaged by the mining and energy corporations that S.2109 benefits. S.2109 and the "Settlement Agreement" require Navajo and Hopi to give Peabody Coal Mining Company and the Salt River Project and other owners of the Navajo Generating Station (NGS) tens of thousands of acre-feet of Navajo and Hopi water annually - without any compensation - and to force the extension of Peabody and NGS leases without Navajo and Hopi community input, or regard for past and continuing harmful impacts to public health, water supplies and water quality - as necessary pre-conditions to Navajo and Hopi receiving Congressional appropriations for minimal domestic water development.

This is coercive and wrong.

Yet one more example of the Republican's ongoing championship of big money interests to the detriment of everyone else. Peabody Coal has caused incredible ecological damage around here, not to mention the destruction of sites considered sacred by the Navajo and Hopi alike. Now McCain wants to reward Peabody for its misdeeds and add insult to injury to the members of both tribes by handing over tribal water rights with no consideration of the consequences for the people living in this land of little rain. I hope a skinwalker gets him!

[orthodoc]

Originally Posted by SamIam

Wow! McCain's attempt to deprive the Hopi and Navajo people of their water rights is happening right in my own backyard, and I wasn't even aware of it. Thanks for the heads up, Blue!

From Native News Network:

I hadn't heard about this until now either. Thanks, bluecuracao! This is outrageous. There was a meeting yesterday in DC on it; apparently the Secretary of the Interior wants to force it through the lame-duck Congress in the next few weeks. Wtf! Without tribal agreement? I think this does deserve its own thread. Not because Adak says so, but because it would get more attention from intelligent Cellarites if not buried here.

[Sheldonrs]

So McCain is trashing this Rice after 4 people were killed and she spoke to the press with the info she was given at the time, but he approved Condi Rice after thousands were killed after she KNEW about the threats BEFORE it happened and did nothing. And then supported war against people who had NOTHING to do with it and got thousands MORE killed.

Adak, you are a moron.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Sheldonrs

So McCain is trashing this Rice after 4 people were killed and she spoke to the press with the info she was given at the time, but he approved Condi Rice after thousands were killed after she KNEW about the threats BEFORE it happened and did nothing. And then supported war against people who had NOTHING to do with it and got thousands MORE killed.

Adak, you are a moron.

A mouthpiece for a huge lie, is hardly someone to reward by giving them the Secretary of State position.

I am making no comparison with Condolezza Rice, and not defending Bush, either.

I did not support the invasion of Iraq. Crippling sanctions against him - yes; invasion and rebuilding for 10 years? No.

[Trilby]

Adak-you're looking like a troll.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Trilby

Adak-you're looking like a troll.

And you're looking like a dimwit who doesn't give a damn that Americans were abandoned, killed, and our Ambassador's body (probably dead, but not confirmed), was dragged through the streets (for awhile), by Al Qaeda.

Do you really believe it's nothing? Ho hum, another Ambassador is attacked overseas, and we ignore their plea's for help, so he gets X'd out -- just another day at the ol' White House?

This isn't politics. This isn't just another dumber than dirt policy decision by our glorious leader.

@Water rights for the Hopi and Navajo:
Why not start a thread on it? It's off topic here, but sounds like something people should be made aware of, and follow developments therein.

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by Adak

... and our Ambassador's body (probably dead, but not confirmed), was dragged through the streets (for awhile), by Al Qaeda.

You're the first person I've heard this from. Cite? Any video?

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Cyber Wolf

You're the first person I've heard this from. Cite? Any video?

The recon drone that was relaying video of the attack, may have caught it. The video that was released doesn't show the dragging. As I understand it, it went like this:

The attackers were themselves being attacked by the locals, who did want to support the Ambassador (and some had been hired for that purpose).

The video shows the Ambassador being discovered barely alive, by the local defenders. But later, the terrorists regrouped, and grabbed Stevens (the Ambassador), and began dragging him down the street.
The videographer was driven off, since he was with the local defenders.

The local defenders saw this, and renewed their attack on the terrorists, and drove them off, recovering Stevens body - and took him straightaway to the hospital.

None of the others were dragged, or taken to the hospital, because the mortar shell that landed on the roof they were fighting from, mangled them so badly - it was clear they were dead.

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by Adak

The recon drone that was relaying video of the attack, may have caught it. The video that was released doesn't show the dragging. As I understand it, it went like this:

The attackers were themselves being attacked by the locals, who did want to support the Ambassador (and some had been hired for that purpose).

The video shows the Ambassador being discovered barely alive, by the local defenders. But later, the terrorists regrouped, and grabbed Stevens (the Ambassador), and began dragging him down the street.
The videographer was driven off, since he was with the local defenders.

The local defenders saw this, and renewed their attack on the terrorists, and drove them off, recovering Stevens body - and took him straightaway to the hospital.

None of the others were dragged, or taken to the hospital, because the mortar shell that landed on the roof they were fighting from, mangled them so badly - it was clear they were dead.

So, the drone video available to public scrutiny doesn't show it. The on-the-ground videographer didn't get video of it. There are no pictures that suggest this actually happened. So, in essence, the dragging of the body is hearsay, not fact. If a credible source confirms the unreleased portion of the video shows him getting dragged, that might change. Has a credible source said anything about it?

[Ibby]

liar.

[DanaC]

But not, apparently, a mormon.

[Stormieweather]

You know, I have lived overseas, in the middle east, and was employed by the US army, on a base. I worked for a year as a communications coordinator. I know how information from situations and other countries on the other side of the world comes in...bits and pieces and dribs and drabs.

There is confusion, conflicting information, missing information and some guesswork involved. As more and more information is received, the picture begins to develop and crystalize. But it isn't complete (or accurate) in an hour, or day, or even a month.

Unlike in the US, you can't just send personnel from point A to B and expect them to get there like an ambulance would do here!. There are unbelievable traffic situations, foreign military checkpoints to get through, tons of bureaucracy and red tape to navigate. Even if I, as a civilian, wanted to go to the grocery store off base, there was red tape.

And then you have people all along the way who may have made mistakes and are covering ass. So they may fudge and/or leave things out trying to protect themselves and their fellows.

I think it is absolutely absurd to expect the commanders, including the commander-in-chief, to have everything 100% accurate, immediately.

Additionally, Ambassador Stevens was not dragged through the streets by Al Qaeda. He was found in the safe room, nearly dead from smoke inhalation (which he did eventually die from) and rescued. The cheers in that video going around is because he was alive! I'd really refrain from going around calling people dimwits until you get your own facts straight, Adak.

New York Times

“In the video, none say anything that shows ill will.

I swear, he’s dead,” one Libyan says, peering in.

“Bring him out, man! Bring him out,” another says.

“The man is alive. Move out of the way,” others shout. “Just bring him out, man.”

“Move, move, he is still alive!”

“Alive, Alive! God is great,” the crowd erupts, while someone calls to bring Mr. Stevens to a car.

Mr. Stevens was taken to a hospital, where a doctor tried to revive him, but said he was all but dead on arrival.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

You know, I have lived overseas, in the middle east, and was employed by the US army, on a base. I worked for a year as a communications coordinator. I know how information from situations and other countries on the other side of the world comes in...bits and pieces and dribs and drabs.

There is confusion, conflicting information, missing information and some guesswork involved. As more and more information is received, the picture begins to develop and crystalize. But it isn't complete (or accurate) in an hour, or day, or even a month.

Unlike in the US, you can't just send personnel from point A to B and expect them to get there like an ambulance would do here!. There are unbelievable traffic situations, foreign military checkpoints to get through, tons of bureaucracy and red tape to navigate. ...

And then you have people all along the way who may have made mistakes and are covering ass. So they may fudge and/or leave things out trying to protect themselves and their fellows.

I think it is absolutely absurd to expect the commanders, including the commander-in-chief, to have everything 100% accurate, immediately.

Additionally, Ambassador Stevens was not dragged through the streets by Al Qaeda. He was found in the safe room, nearly dead from smoke inhalation (which he did eventually die from) and rescued. The cheers in that video going around is because he was alive! I'd really refrain from going around calling people dimwits until you get your own facts straight, Adak.

New York Times

That's because the video you watched, was taken by the locals who were trying to defend the Ambassador. They weren't the terrorists who were attacking the consulate!

Those defenders were too little, and too late, to save the Ambassador. They were driven off after Stevens was found alive, by the terrorists. Then he was dragged briefly, before they re-grouped and drove the terrorists away, for the last time, and recovered Stevens. THEN they took him straightaway, to the hospital.

The intel was perfectly clear. Consulate had an "attack" alarm to let the Embassy in Tripoli know they were under attack. That was pressed as soon as the attack started.

Subsequent phone calls and emails were sent both by the Ambassador and by the ex-Seal type CIA agents who were 1/3rd of a mile away, on Consulate grounds, but in another building (the Annex). They could distinctly hear the gunfire, and called it in to their superiors, as well.

The CIA guys were told to evacuate with the Americans that they could get from the Consulate - away to the nearby airport and fly out on a plane that was standing by for them.

This is the article on the revised account given by the CIA on this:

When the team finally managed to secure transportation and an armed escort into Benghazi, they learned that Stevens “was almost certainly dead and that the security situation at the hospital was uncertain.” At that point they headed to the annex to help evacuate the Americans located there .

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...uick-response/

Did you notice the "he was almost certainly dead" part?

That's because they heard that Stevens body had been dragged before it was recovered and taken to the hospital.

They're not going to say "Oh yeah, Stevens body was bouncing right along the street there, for 1/2 a mile before it could be recovered".

That would not be PC, and would not CTAsses.

This timeline does appear to support a better response, from the Embassy in Tripoli, however. Dohan (killed on the annex roof with Woods), was from Tripoli's response team.


Re: name calling

You get what you give. You want name calling, you'll get it right back.

Re: facts

All the facts are not in. The above statements I made are believed accurate, but the CIA and State Department, and the White House, are all trying to CTAsses on this one - so the real truth is not clear yet.

Senate hearing on this begin next week.