Hezbollah night-vision gear manufactured in Britain

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

mmmm...... Eurpean is the new black, UT?

European is the new hippie, actually.

Hippies longed to be black in many ways--think of them as '60s era Wiggers and you'll be close. So not actually black, but black wannabes. That would make Europeans wannabe wannabes. Tragic, but what can you do?

But Europe doesn't have enough have enough grown-ups, and the demographic situation is deteriorating as we speak. A little appreciated fact about being hippies is that they actually need a parent culture and economy to provide their ecological niches. But the new "Yurop" is having it's best niches saturated with immigrants. Since it would be uncool and politically incorrect to reject them, the whole business is headed for the abyss.

It's just not a viable business model...

[JayMcGee]

but viable enough to attract US trade sanctions on everything from Whiskey to steel. What are you afraid of?

[glatt]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

What are you afraid of?

Duh. Whiskey and steel, of course. :p

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by headsplice

The Israeli's are trying to defend their homeland from people who blow themselves up in markets by dropping using full-blown military incursions into sovereign territory.
And who again are the people that are 'right' and 'good' in this situation?

It's not defend, make that "extend". I thought I made that clear by several quotes from Israelian politician and military.

The right and the good people are those who pursue peace, from both sides.

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

That's quite a stretch from what I actually said to claiming that your prediction is fulfilled.

As you note I'm not Brianna, furthermore I'm not her sista in any sense (that's another howler, there) and I didn't call anything anti-Semitic; I simply pointed out that something that is highly dependant on perspective isn't a fact, it's an interpretation. Of course, other than that you're batting 1.000.

Facts don't come from perspectives. tw is very fond of referring to his opinons as "facts", perhaps in the hope it will spare them close inspection. You know he's entered 100% incoherent mode when he starts foaming about "these are the facts".

Facts are facts, numbers in a certain order of a certain magnitude. These are not opinions, or presumptions, these are simple facts. It's you who take the perspective of ignoring it.

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by wolf

Then you're not being very observant, as it happens.

When it comes down to it, nobody "owns" The Cellar. Well, okay, UT is the owner/operator/sysadmin in the sense that it's his stuff ... but the real ownership of The Cellar is in the hands of the people who participate, lurk, or visit occasionally here.

Observant enough to notice that both had the authorisation to use my personal information like IP adress. Using this in an open discussion is just not done, especially when one is a moderator, don't you think?

Personally I don't really care, as it's not important. But I can't see why for the usual supects it's important in a discussion what my origin is. You may have noticed that I strictly confine myself to the actual discussion whithout referring to the other like antisemitic, communist, or worse.... European...

[Hippikos]

But the new "Yurop" is having it's best niches saturated with immigrants

Funny to hear from someone who lives in a country which literally was founded by immigrant descendants (from Europe...). And what about the Mexicans immigrating to the US currently?

Immigration is a worldwide fact, nothing wrong with that.

And Hippies don't exist anymore, they're being called Baby Boomers now.

[DanaC]

Oh my....I'm a hippie now? I love the way it all boils down to a personal attack in the end. Our view of the Middle east situation is what it is because we're just too young and stupid and full of silly idealism to know better.

Brilliant.

And what's that crap about our best niches being saturated by immigrants? We're a continent....we have populations shifting about. We attract immigrants and we lose emigres at a similar rate. I don't see how that's saturation. It's just a shifting picture, a society in flux. No bad thing if you ask me. Pretty much the way it's always been. The only real difference now, is that our population shifts come from peacable migration and the odd band of refugees rather than wholescale marauding, invasion and streams of dispossessed.


Incidentally, the figures for Europe as a whole may show a young population, but Britain has an aging one. WE need a little immigration else we're going to be in trouble in a few years.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Oh my....I'm a hippie now? I love the way it all boils down to a personal attack in the end. Our view of the Middle east situation is what it is because we're just too young and stupid and full of silly idealism to know better.

Brilliant.

And what's that crap about our best niches being saturated by immigrants? We're a continent....we have populations shifting about. We attract immigrants and we lose emigres at a similar rate...

Incidentally, the figures for Europe as a whole may show a young population, but Britain has an aging one. WE need a little immigration else we're going to be in trouble in a few years.

Read the link I posted. The demographic issue isn't "too many young people", in fact, it's quite the opposite. Do you really think the economic contribution gained from your immigrants and birth rate exceeds that lost by emigration and aging? Some authors disagree. In a socialist system you'd better hope so, because somebody has to pay for it all; an increasing number of takers balanced on the back of a shrinking population of makers is very bad news.

Hipppies don't particularly have to be either young or stupid...and "Hippie" is a personal attack only if you hate hippies and choose to take it as such. I can speak with some knowlege about hippies; I used to be one, a long, long time ago. The original hippie culture was an incredible font of creativity, if not of industriousness. Computing technology was particular was profoundly influenced by the counterculture of the '60s.

But someone doesn't become a wannabe because they're overloaded with creativity and originality.

[DanaC]

*Chuckles* I am sorry. I didn't read the link I just made assumptions based on the context.

I don't find hippie to be an insult. I've done my share of Glastonbury festivals, complete with a painted ambulance and psycotropic drugs. Did that make me a wannabe? Probably. Nothing wrong with a 19 year old wanting to be something that they admire.

I do find the idea that you deem our continent 'wannabes' a tad insulting. I also don't see that having high immigration leads to an abundance of takers and a lack of makers. Most immigrants contribute a great deal to the country they settle in. We have many businesses started by immigrants and they traditionally pay a higher amount of taxes than the native population over the span of their lives. Whether that holds true for continental europe I am not sure, but it's certainly the case in Britain.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I do find the idea that you deem our continent 'wannabes' a tad insulting...Whether that holds true for continental europe I am not sure, but it's certainly the case in Britain.

Interesting juxtaposition there--reflecting the congitive dissonance I think a lot of Britons feel about the EU. You refer to "our continent" and a few sentences later refer to "contenental Europe" as distinct from the UK.

My sense is that many UK folks are of two minds as to whether this whole EU thing is really A Good Idea. That there's still a separate UK currency is one sign. Blair's resistance to subsidizing "continental" agriculture is likely another.

Not to worry about deeming the continent to be "wannabes" though. We've got a metric assload of hippie wannabes here in "Murika", too.

And some of them have Cellar usernames...:-)

It would be fair to observe that the original hippies themselves were not only wannabe blacks, but also wannabe beatniks. So the phenomenon is both cutural and generational. I couldn't resist mocking 'Kos's wanting to cast himself as one of the "New Blacks", though.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

but viable enough to attract US trade sanctions on everything from Whiskey to steel. What are you afraid of?

You want to play the "Our trade barriers are lower than yours" game? You'll have to find someone who's interested. I don't have the attention span to follow EU trade regulations. I'm sure you'll find fellowship with tw on this topic.

We do our part; our household drinks Glen Morangie and Bailey's in decided preference to US whiskies. We just don't drink that much of either.

As for steel, we prefer Gerber, Kimber, Kel-Tec and Kershaw. Tough.

[Undertoad]

I'm not a hippie... I prefer the term "bohemian".

[Undertoad]

By the way, the steel tariff lasted about a year and is dead now. It was entirely a political play by the administration, to get votes in certain swing states that fancy themselves to be steel producers. The EU said WTF and the admin dropped the tariff, having gotten the bump they wanted.

[headsplice]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

It's not defend, make that "extend". I thought I made that clear by several quotes from Israelian politician and military.

The right and the good people are those who pursue peace, from both sides.

The point is that neither side is in the right. Both sides commit acts that are unacceptable.
MaggieL: how large is a metric assload? And, since it must be some sort of dual hemispherical shape, do you include the crevice in your measurement?