Georgism - Page 6

elSicomoro · 10-01-2003, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radar
New Hampshire is a shithole

Could you tell me which parts are bad, b/c the parts of NH I've been in are rather nice. That way, when I go back up there next spring, I'll know where not to go.

Thanks man!

Undertoad · 10-01-2003, 12:58 PM

For the regulars, this is hilarious on its face: Radar found a reason -- ANY reason, really -- to call the Free State Project bogus and a potential failure, for a minor philosophical point that won't really apply to the FSP until, probably, decades into its existence.

(We understand that "any minor point" can be turned into an immensely large point by Radar, through the application of his odd razor: assuming every other matter solved, THIS matter would be the stumbling block ergo THIS matter is huge.)

A large number of Libby philosophical purists are not really purists at all, but compulsive contrarians. Another segment are church ladies ready to show how everyone else has gone astray. Liberty is their religion and they spend their time in evangelist mode.

The Free State Project has picked New Hampshire to move its 20,000 libbies to. My family welcomes you, please enjoy some maple candy and learn to split firewood. Anyone looking for some awesomely beautiful acreage in Franconia, with the perfectly pure water of the Gale River running right through it, should speak with me directly. You can have better than Poland Spring water running right through your taps. 200 people in Franconia would run the entire goddamn town since the population is about 500 anyway.

Radar · 10-01-2003, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Could you tell me which parts are bad, b/c the parts of NH I've been in are rather nice. That way, when I go back up there next spring, I'll know where not to go.

Every part when compared with Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and Alaska.

Torrere · 10-01-2003, 03:36 PM

I bet you don't even provide clothes for the poor proletarian dairy producing laborers on your so-called 'nudist colony', do you, you capitalist you.

JanLocke · 10-01-2003, 06:29 PM

Quote:

I like my house, and I want to live in it. I don't want to sell it at any price.

Fine set the price of your site (not your building) high enough that no one will buy it...set it too low and bye-bye!

JanLocke · 10-01-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

or the regulars, this is hilarious on its face: Radar found a reason -- ANY reason, really -- to call the Free State Project bogus and a potential failure, for a minor philosophical point that won't really apply to the FSP until, probably, decades into its existence.

The truth comes out now - even his "pals" are turning on him.

The minor philosophical point is not so minor in my mind. Property taxes in NH are a singular rate 25 per 1000 of valuation on land and on buildings in my town. Taxing buildings (the fruits of labor) discourages people from building but shifting taxes off buildings and onto land values will incent people to optimize the use of land as it relates to the center city:

1. lower tenant rents by the building boom of apartments
2. make land and housing more affordable by ending speculation
3. curb sprawl without zoning by focusing development downtown where it belongs
4. increase blue collar jobs
5. create more walkable & livable cities while encouraging less dependence on the car
6. protect open space as the edge of the cities contract

JanLocke · 10-01-2003, 06:59 PM

The original premise for me being dragged here by "dopey" from the FSP is because I am arguing that the original classical liberals - the French Physiocrats - were in fact Geo-libertarians...treating labor-based property differently than title-based property from our natural world...which no human physically created.

Today's so called "libertarians" are really Neo-libertarians in sheeps clothing and because of this misunderstanding their views actually conflict with their principles and makes them totally unable to deal with issues of social justice and environmental problems.

Here are links to others who layout the proof better than I can:

Neo or "Royal" Libertarian

Todd Altman's site

Read them for yourself and decide...

I am off to start a Geo-libertarian Caucus within the Free State Project here in NH and continue my efforts to expose the Neo-libertarians for what they are - FRAUDS. Anyone who wants to join I welcome if you come with an open mind towards learning the truth!

elSicomoro · 10-01-2003, 09:04 PM

This thread is becoming more and more like a Seinfeld episode.

Undertoad · 10-01-2003, 09:14 PM

Which one is the People's Front of Judea again?

Torrere · 10-01-2003, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JanLocke
Fine set the price of your site (not your building) high enough that no one will buy it...set it too low and bye-bye!

I am so glad that I don't live in your country.

Why not just do it the sane way, where you assess the value of someone's home by assigning an employee to assess it's worth, and measuring the price of homes for sale around him?

Do you want to be forced out of your home because you didn't want to pay too much in taxes? Why don't you want someone to be able to say "sorry, not for sale" without robbing them blind in taxes?

Whit · 10-01-2003, 11:45 PM

Quote:

From Adan:
fine I could give a rat's ass either I am agnostic. But it doesn't change the fact that no one made it - right?

      The basis of Locke's argument is that God made it. Now you say you're agnostic. Therefore it's illegitimate for you to use this argument.
      So please, send me a link to what you believe. I asked for it already, and in spite of your continuos rudeness, I've asked again politely.

Quote:

Simple question: Are the original classical liberals geo-libertarians or neo-libertarians?

      Um, actually I don't care. I'm not in any way connected to any form of libertarianism. Not in the slightest. Nor is just about anyone else around here. I'd have to study a bunch of stuff that I'm not interested in to actually be able to form an answer to that question. Neither you nor Radar have given me any reason to spend the time. Though he didn't ask the question either.
      You see, the only current libertarians I've talked to, of any sort, are you and Radar. The way you approach things is enough to suggest you are worse than him.
      If you back tracked on this site a bit you'd find that Radar has threatened me physically. We aren't pals. So you see, I've no reason to read up on all the back history I'd need to answer your question.
      One more time though, as far as the land discussion, what are your beliefs? The ones you actually hold?
      Come to think of it, I'd also like to know why you linked me to a site that was supposed to give me your side, then when I take issue with a major point you say you don't believe that anyway. For that matter, why be rude to an impartial observer? I'm still willing to listen to you or Radar, if you make an honest arguement.
      At least with Radar even if I think he's nuts I don't doubt he believes what he is saying.
      You have not shown the same.

ThisOleMiss · 10-02-2003, 09:19 AM

Adan, Gee, I try real hard not to say anything personal about the people who post, but just how far up your ass is your head anyway?

Ripping of my neigbor, well he did it willingly. I did not force him to sign a mortage for 240k, he did it own his own. BTW that was about 30K less than what anyone else would have asked, but we wanted desparatly to leave the socialist state of califuckyou.

Adan, get a life, get a job, get a clue, get laid, get something, as obviously you have been educated well beyond your intelligence and spend way too much time on the internet.

Poll, folks, who'd you rather have over for dinner, Adan, or one of my goats??

ThisOleMiss · 10-02-2003, 09:29 AM

Torrere, as a matter of fact, my goats have some very nice 'goat coats' for inclement weather. They're made of nylon lined with polar fleece, designed to keep the little kiddes warm. I run them up on my sewing machine.

My poor 'working' goats have such a hard life, they get fed grain twice a day, have all the hay they want, all the green stuff they can eat, and 20 acres of pasture land to play in. They've got a nice snug 'goat shed' and get better health care than most people. In return all I expect is for them to keep the pasture free of weeds and brush, a few gallons of milk per day, and an increase in herd size. If anyone is worried about them ending up in the freezer, it isn't going to happen, they're more like pets than farm animals.

Guess that makes me the same as the big bad goverment, oppressing the poor goats like that, expecting them to work in exchange for all those goodies. Oh my god, I think I may be a
CONSERVATIVE!!!!

Torrere · 10-02-2003, 02:34 PM

- you provide warm coats to protect them from bad weather
- you supply them with good food
- comfortable working conditions
- comfortable housing
- 20 acre range
- free medical and health care

It sounds like you might have a liberal streak to ya, missy! Next thing you know, you'll be giving your goats Twizzlers!

BUT! What would happen if you were not such a good mistress? What if you were the Cruella deVille sort?

Would your goats be fleeced before the winter came with it's cold storms?
Would your goats live in stalls little larger than a cubicle?
Would your goats have to live on a thin gruel of watery wheat paste?
Would you take the hatchet to them if they didn't produce enough milk?

You see, it all depends upon you. Since you are a good mistress, the goats live well. Were you not a good mistress, the goats might suffer in ways you would shiver to think about.

Socialism came about to curtail the abuses of the Cruella deVilles of the world. The people that Upton Sinclair was trying to expose. The goats may have lucked out this time, but do they have a choice whether they will work for you or for another? What about those poor goats out there that are being oppressed?

10-01-2003, 06:59 PM	#82
JanLocke Non-Newbie Sort Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 6	The original premise for me being dragged here by "dopey" from the FSP is because I am arguing that the original classical liberals - the French Physiocrats - were in fact Geo-libertarians...treating labor-based property differently than title-based property from our natural world...which no human physically created. Today's so called "libertarians" are really Neo-libertarians in sheeps clothing and because of this misunderstanding their views actually conflict with their principles and makes them totally unable to deal with issues of social justice and environmental problems. Here are links to others who layout the proof better than I can: Neo or "Royal" Libertarian Todd Altman's site Read them for yourself and decide... I am off to start a Geo-libertarian Caucus within the Free State Project here in NH and continue my efforts to expose the Neo-libertarians for what they are - FRAUDS. Anyone who wants to join I welcome if you come with an open mind towards learning the truth! Last edited by JanLocke; 10-01-2003 at 07:21 PM.

10-02-2003, 09:19 AM	#87
ThisOleMiss Resident President Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Very, very, rural Mississippi Posts: 83	Adan, Gee, I try real hard not to say anything personal about the people who post, but just how far up your ass is your head anyway? Ripping of my neigbor, well he did it willingly. I did not force him to sign a mortage for 240k, he did it own his own. BTW that was about 30K less than what anyone else would have asked, but we wanted desparatly to leave the socialist state of califuckyou. Adan, get a life, get a job, get a clue, get laid, get something, as obviously you have been educated well beyond your intelligence and spend way too much time on the internet. Poll, folks, who'd you rather have over for dinner, Adan, or one of my goats?? __________________ Why kill them when you can make them live and suffer?

10-02-2003, 09:29 AM	#88
ThisOleMiss Resident President Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Very, very, rural Mississippi Posts: 83	Torrere, as a matter of fact, my goats have some very nice 'goat coats' for inclement weather. They're made of nylon lined with polar fleece, designed to keep the little kiddes warm. I run them up on my sewing machine. My poor 'working' goats have such a hard life, they get fed grain twice a day, have all the hay they want, all the green stuff they can eat, and 20 acres of pasture land to play in. They've got a nice snug 'goat shed' and get better health care than most people. In return all I expect is for them to keep the pasture free of weeds and brush, a few gallons of milk per day, and an increase in herd size. If anyone is worried about them ending up in the freezer, it isn't going to happen, they're more like pets than farm animals. Guess that makes me the same as the big bad goverment, oppressing the poor goats like that, expecting them to work in exchange for all those goodies. Oh my god, I think I may be a CONSERVATIVE!!!! __________________ Why kill them when you can make them live and suffer?

10-02-2003, 02:34 PM	#89
Torrere a real smartass Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 1,121	- you provide warm coats to protect them from bad weather - you supply them with good food - comfortable working conditions - comfortable housing - 20 acre range - free medical and health care It sounds like you might have a liberal streak to ya, missy! Next thing you know, you'll be giving your goats Twizzlers! BUT! What would happen if you were not such a good mistress? What if you were the Cruella deVille sort? Would your goats be fleeced before the winter came with it's cold storms? Would your goats live in stalls little larger than a cubicle? Would your goats have to live on a thin gruel of watery wheat paste? Would you take the hatchet to them if they didn't produce enough milk? You see, it all depends upon you. Since you are a good mistress, the goats live well. Were you not a good mistress, the goats might suffer in ways you would shiver to think about. Socialism came about to curtail the abuses of the Cruella deVilles of the world. The people that Upton Sinclair was trying to expose. The goats may have lucked out this time, but do they have a choice whether they will work for you or for another? What about those poor goats out there that are being oppressed? Last edited by Torrere; 10-02-2003 at 05:16 PM.

10-01-2003, 12:58 PM	#77
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	For the regulars, this is hilarious on its face: Radar found a reason -- ANY reason, really -- to call the Free State Project bogus and a potential failure, for a minor philosophical point that won't really apply to the FSP until, probably, decades into its existence. (We understand that "any minor point" can be turned into an immensely large point by Radar, through the application of his odd razor: assuming every other matter solved, THIS matter would be the stumbling block ergo THIS matter is huge.) A large number of Libby philosophical purists are not really purists at all, but compulsive contrarians. Another segment are church ladies ready to show how everyone else has gone astray. Liberty is their religion and they spend their time in evangelist mode. The Free State Project has picked New Hampshire to move its 20,000 libbies to. My family welcomes you, please enjoy some maple candy and learn to split firewood. Anyone looking for some awesomely beautiful acreage in Franconia, with the perfectly pure water of the Gale River running right through it, should speak with me directly. You can have better than Poland Spring water running right through your taps. 200 people in Franconia would run the entire goddamn town since the population is about 500 anyway.

10-01-2003, 03:36 PM	#79
Torrere a real smartass Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 1,121	I bet you don't even provide clothes for the poor proletarian dairy producing laborers on your so-called 'nudist colony', do you, you capitalist you.

10-01-2003, 09:04 PM	#83
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	This thread is becoming more and more like a Seinfeld episode.

10-01-2003, 09:14 PM	#84
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Which one is the People's Front of Judea again?

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