What does being a "Liberal" mean? (US)

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by BigV

mercy, you're elusive because you just don't stay on topic. you don't have any compunctions against conflating the most disparate and irrelevant statements. you do this all the time. I want to keep up, but you don't talk in a straight line, with contiguous thoughts. It's frustrating because I bet you have some good ideas, not all the good ideas of course, but the ones you probably have are practically impossible to discern. If I thought you were just being deliberately difficult or nuts, I'd ignore you--I don't think those things.

So, for example, how would you reply to F+B's question? I read your post, it's practically a non-sequitor.

This is the main problem I have with arguing with Merc. It's like trying to plait fog.

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by DanaC

It's like trying to plait fog.

I love that turn of phrase.

You sound better, Dana. I'm glad.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by BigV

mercy, you're elusive because you just don't stay on topic. you don't have any compunctions against conflating the most disparate and irrelevant statements. you do this all the time. I want to keep up, but you don't talk in a straight line, with contiguous thoughts. It's frustrating because I bet you have some good ideas, not all the good ideas of course, but the ones you probably have are practically impossible to discern. If I thought you were just being deliberately difficult or nuts, I'd ignore you--I don't think those things.

No, what you and others want to do is place me and what I think into some nice little box you recognize and understand as a familiar thing. You will never be able to do that.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by BigV

So, for example, how would you reply to F+B's question? I read your post, it's practically a non-sequitor.

My response is exactly how he responded, but it didn't come from an list of quotes from Herman Cain and other Republickin presidential want-to-bes and a discussion of God, it came from Obama and his attacks on rural people who believe in God and guns and all those other evil things that are tearing this country apart. Rigggghhttt...

(And no, I don't even go to church.)

It is an in-kind response.

[DanaC]

Considerably so, thanks Pete

[Spexxvet]

Some characteristics of a modern American liberal:

- a willingness to compromise.

- a willingness to increase taxes on themselves.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Some characteristics of a modern American liberal:

- environmentally friendly gas-guzzlers

- sustainably harvested ammunition

- organic bibles

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Flint

I remember what it was like. I was young and full of ideas--I knew the right answer for everything. There were policies that I believed would be best for the country, and for the human race. Many people didn't agree with these ideas, but that was because, you see, they were stupid. You know, studid, racist, Bible-thumpers.

And if they didn't want to go along with the progress of humanity, they would have to be dragged along kicking and screaming. And once all the obsolete oldtimers passed away, the rest of us could really get on with it. It was importnat to stand for things that needed to change. Old-fashioned ideas that weren't needed anymore.

I believed, at that time (although I never would have admitted to it in these terms, but the concept is unavoidable), that a legitimate use of the government would be to impose ideas on some people "for their own good" simply because the rest of us were so convinced that we had all the answers.

I don't believe that anymore.

I'm still a believer... and much of what you said above is true in PDX.
We are still dragging them kicking and screaming....


Portland Enacts Plastic Bag Ban
By Sophia Bennett
August 24, 2011

Portland is the most recent city to ban plastic bags from many retail stores.

On July 28, 2011, the Portland City Council passed a resolution stating that,
as of October 15, 2011, large grocery stores and various big-box stores cannot
distribute plastic carryout bags to their customers.

“We really wanted to try to reach the biggest generators of plastic bags first,”
says Lisa Libby, Planning and Sustainability Director for Portland Mayor Sam Adams.
That’s why the City Council targeted the stores where people make the most frequent trips.
<snip>

Senate Bill 536 would have banned single-use plastic bags “except in certain cases,”
such as seafood retailers that pack fish on ice.
The bill was approved by the [Oregon] Senate, but ultimately did not pass in the House.
With the failure of SB 536, Portland quickly went back to work finding its own solution.
Libby is still optimistic that a statewide law on plastic bags will pass at some point.
“We hope that resolutions from jurisdictions will move us toward a more comprehensive state policy,” she says.

To help local residents prepare for the bag ban, city officials have been handing out reusable shopping bags for years.

[ZenGum]

We did that a few years back. The sky did not fall, life goes on, and my green hippy bags sit in the car.

[classicman]

Great, so now we use paper bags and kill more trees. Deforestation here we come!

[ZenGum]

Contrariwise; the bags are made from durable cloth and are reusable indefinitely.

Except I saw some idiot TV news-type show warning us about the dangers of getting our reusable bags dirty, then carrying food products in them. Nitwit reporter ends by recommending that we can wash them regularly, or "throw them out and get new ones".

[glatt]

DC started taxing the plastic bags. It's basically a commuter tax. It has worked. When I go into the shops around here to pick up one or two items, I just hold them or put them in my pockets now.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by glatt

DC started taxing the plastic bags. It's basically a commuter tax. It has worked. When I go into the shops around here to pick up one or two items, I just hold them or put them in my pockets now.

Is that a loaf of bread in your pocket...?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by classicman

Great, so now we use paper bags and kill more trees. Deforestation here we come!

Cotton: It's what's for dinner, or something...

[glatt]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Is that a loaf of bread in your pocket...?

No, actually. But it sure is nice to see you.