Vaccination & epidemic

[Undertoad]

i was offended by the tone of the 1st post in this thread because i knew we'd argued about this in the past, and felt like it might be directed at me and my family.

this surely isn't the old LJ we've known and loved all these years.

get over it NANCY

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

this surely isn't the old LJ we've known and loved all these years.

get over it NANCY

see...i noticed that TGRR came to the defense of his friend Tiki.

[Undertoad]

Here's what the study referenced says

CONCLUSIONS: No consistent significant associations were found between TCVs and neurodevelopmental outcomes.

To understand why they came to that conclusion, I expect one would need coursework in statistics. Nevertheless, that was the conclusion of the researchers, and you are merely cherry-picking their work to try to come to a different conclusion, which I think you shouldn't do.

[DanaC]

UT Ithink the key words there are consistent and significant. They also suggested areas of concern where results were slightly different.

It is very difficult to prove a consistent cause of eczema and asthma. There are a variety of 'triggers' that set off a flare. As yet they've been unable to find a consistent cause. There are a number of possibilities. But immuno conditions are a bitch to figure out. It's entirely possible conditions like autism are just as tricky. If we're relying on consistent results, then I doubt they will ever be confident enough to point to anything as a cause.

[DanaC]

Frankly, the onus should be on medical science to prove that it is safe. At the moment the onus seems to be on people having to prove that it isn't.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Frankly, the onus should be on medical science to prove that it is safe. At the moment the onus seems to be on people having to prove that it isn't.

It has always been like that because people want solutions to their problems and people who have disease are willing to accept risk-benefit ratios that are directed to a greater extent to easing or curing disease, not thinking to much about the very small group that is affected by rare unintended effects. The medical commuinty thinks the same way. Can we fix problem x with solution y and are 99% of the people relieved.

[Undertoad]

You guys are working really hard to interpret the science differently than the science interprets itself. You shouldn't do that.

I should add, I love you guys. If I am wrong I hope you still love me.

I pushed you cause
I loved you guys
I didn't realize
You weren't having fun
I dragged you up the stairs
And I told you to fly
You were flapping your arms
You started to cry
You were too high
Too high
-- Ben Folds Five, My Philosophy

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

You guys are working really hard to interpret the science differently than the science interprets itself. You shouldn't do that.

I disagree but thanks for your perspective. That study was offered under the context of dismissing an autism connection. It clearly doesn't dismiss anything when it calls for more accurate research.

In the United Kingdom, researchers evaluated the vaccination records of 100,572 children born during 1988–1997, using the General Practice Research Database, 104 of whom were affected with autism [27]. No relationship between thimerosal exposure and autism diagnosis was observed.

And we can tell that by studying just one of several vaccines an infant receives at once? That's what the reference says...

CONCLUSIONS: With the possible exception of tics, there was no evidence that thimerosal exposure via DTP/DT vaccines causes neurodevelopmental disorders.

[jinx]

It should also be noted that Paul Offit (author of article) holds the patent on 2 vaccines; one currently on the schedule, and one that was taken off due to babies dying from intusception.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by jinx

It should also be noted that Paul Offit (author of article) holds the patent on 2 vaccines; one currently on the schedule, and one that was taken off due to babies dying from intusception.

That is quite interesting. Thanks for that bit.

Just FYI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Offit

and about the withdrawn vaccine, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotavirus_vaccine:

Clinical trials in the United States, Finland, and Venezuela had found it to be 80 to 100% effective at preventing severe diarrhea caused by rotavirus A, and researchers had detected no statistically significant serious adverse effects. The manufacturer of the vaccine, however, withdrew it from the market in 1999, after it was discovered that the vaccine may have contributed to an increased risk for intussusception, or bowel obstruction, in one of every 12,000 vaccinated infants.

I don't normally cite Wikipedia but, in this case, it seemed the source least likely to reflect bias.

[Undertoad]

That covers the overview and (partially) one of the studies, what of the other 19?

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

That covers the overview and (partially) one of the studies, what of the other 19?

I'm not done reading them, but I'm out of time for right now.

[TheMercenary]

Here is a list of other studies done by various authors:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/doc...ne_studies.pdf

[TheMercenary]

I do have the ability to pull original articles in their complete format if you need me to.