Times are tough all over

[classicman]

Legal battle to ensue....Great another way for the lawyers to get rich and the people who are rightfully deserving of the money to get even less.

[smoothmoniker]

Somebody asked earlier how we had positioned to avoid the crash.

My wife and I were about 80% invested contrary to the market, mostly in ETFs like SDS and SKF. There was a little bit of nervousness when short sales froze ... overall, a very good holding.

I think we're at or near the bottom, so I'm switching over to a more standard basket of stocks.

[Pie]

I got the benefit of the WARN act back in 2003 when OFS/Lucent laid everybody off...
Good times, good times.

[Trilby]

Wait.

A COOKIE company just went belly up?

O.
M.
G.

This is really bad.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Wait.

A COOKIE company just went belly up?

O.
M.
G.

This is really bad.

Not going completely belly up, just moving everything to it's existing plant in Ontario. At a guess I'd say that they'll probably open up a plant in Mexico and start making NAFTA cookies. Notice that the company is filing in Delaware, even though they do not have a plant or HQ there. This is because Delaware is to corporations what Liberia is to rusting oil tankers, a 'flag of convenience'. By the time they're finished, the workers will end up owing the company back pay.

[HungLikeJesus]

That's the way the cookie crumbles

[DanaC]

Quite a lot of my family on mum's side lived (and some still do) on those estates. When I hung out with my older cousins it was the on streets of Madam's Wood estate. Lot of my schoolmates were from estates in Bolton. It was just a fact of life.

My own situation was slightly different. My parents owned their own home from before I was born. When I was three we moved into a beautiful old stone cottage. The area wasn't brilliant, which is why we could afford it, but it was a lovely house and quite big. Quite a few of my friends' parents owned their own homes too (we were a very socially mixed school). Nonethless, every single one of us, including me was advised by teachers, parents, friends and anyone else with an interest to get our names on the housing list as soon as we were of age. Given that it could take years to get to the top of the list and be offered a property it was seen as sensible to get on there as quickly as possible. Better to have the offer of a house that you don't need than no offer of a house that you need :P

I've never owned a house and I am not on the housing list. I rent from private landlords. Like Sundae said, the regulations on the private rental sector are much stronger than they used to be. Though there's still a long way to go and slum landlords are not yet a thing of the past. I see no reason for me to own a house. I don't know where I am going to be at in five years time. I have recognised over the years my limitations and proclivities; I am not motivated by earnings and ownership. If I find myself in a stable setting at some point that allows for property ownership I may consider it.

As a single woman with absolutely no DIY knowhow nor indeed a desire to acquire such, being able to phone the landlord when the boiler breaks down, or the lock on the front door starts sticking, is a definate plus.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by SG

It is a different culture here. We pay higher taxes, so hard working people will take help that's offered without the same stigma as in America. Yes, council housing did get a bad name in the end, but certainly things like child support and state pensions are seen as rights, not welfare.

If you're all happy with the system you've got in place, well I think think it's fantastic.... although I wonder if so many hard working people would need help from social programs, paid for by taxes, if their taxes weren't so high. The hoops you have to jump thru to get the help have to cost a percentage of those taxes eh, making it more expensive than if you'd kept your money and bought what you needed yourself?

Also, it seems like the word welfare is a hot button of sorts... why is welfare bad if social programs are good?

Originally Posted by Dana

As a single woman with absolutely no DIY knowhow nor indeed a desire to acquire such, being able to phone the landlord when the boiler breaks down, or the lock on the front door starts sticking, is a definate plus.

I hear what you're saying but.... why is it easier to call the landlord than calling the boiler repair man yourself? Or is it the money.... you think you're saving on repairs by renting? Does real estate not appreciate over there? Of course everything is afu right now and I have no idea what our current house is worth compared to what we paid for it (especially since its listed as 2 seperate properties on those house-value websites)..... but our first house, purchased when I was 23, increased in value about $10K per year that we owned it. That's a lot of boiler repairs..... and potentially a lot of money put away for retirement.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by jinx

If you're all happy with the system you've got in place, well I think think it's fantastic.... although I wonder if so many hard working people would need help from social programs, paid for by taxes, if their taxes weren't so high. The hoops you have to jump thru to get the help have to cost a percentage of those taxes eh, making it more expensive than if you'd kept your money and bought what you needed yourself?

Also, it seems like the word welfare is a hot button of sorts... why is welfare bad if social programs are good?

It's like insurance. We pay in via taxes, you pay in as individuals. No-one has the right to look down on you for making a claim on your car insurance, house insurance even health insurance. The difference is that the money is there for people who otherwise can't afford it at specific times - Grandad certainly wouldn't have imagined living until 86 alone with someone coming in to wash and dress him, with expensive medicines and regular falls necessitating hospital visits. But when he was a young and lusty scene shifter working at Covent Garden Opera House, his taxes were paying for other children's dental care and teenagers like my Dad in isolation on a TB ward.

I know it is seen very differently in America and I am certainly not trying to change your mind. I was just trying to show how we see it, so the posts make sense.

I understand a lot more about America reading the posts here and it is helpful rather than divisive. But like the idea of what constitutes a decent cup of tea, you tend to be comfortable with what you grew up with

[Cicero]

"but certainly things like child support and state pensions are seen as rights, not welfare."

Awesome SG. Very well put....I have some ideas for a non-profit but the first primary mission would be to neutralize the stigmas associated with program, and not rub it down and soak it in pity;marginalization. Let people have some dignity, and utilize a non-profit. As a right not welfare. This means that the acquisition of state and city grants would not be solely on their terms to disparage the interested.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Cicero

"but certainly things like child support and state pensions are seen as rights, not welfare."

Awesome SG. Very well put....I have some ideas for a non-profit but the first primary mission would be to neutralize the stigmas associated with program, and not rub it down and soak it in pity;marginalization. Let people have some dignity, and utilize a non-profit. As a right not welfare. This means that the acquisition of state and city grants would not be solely on their terms to disparage the interested.

Child support should come from the penis that supplied the sperm, not form the state that had nothing to do with the sexual act.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Child support should come from the penis that supplied the sperm, not form the state that had nothing to do with the sexual act.

Yes it should. Agreed. But daddy is in jail on drug charges so maybe it's impossible, because daddy is a dumb ass. Kids should not suffer because of the actions of their parents. So uh would you like for them to starve and get no healthcare or education, is this what you are suggesting? Not that this isn't happening or anything. Hey let's turn into Africa and have non profits come in to spread christianity and food with no sustainable plan for the future. That sounds fantastic.

What is your plan again?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Yes it should. Agreed. But daddy is in jail on drug charges so maybe it's impossible, because daddy is a dumb ass. Kids should not suffer because of the actions of their parents. So uh would you like for them to starve and get no healthcare or education, is this what you are suggesting? Not that this isn't happening or anything. Hey let's turn into Africa and have non profits come in to spread christianity and food with no sustainable plan for the future. That sounds fantastic.

What is your plan again?

My plan. You should have a license before you are allowed to be pregnant. If your dumb ass hooked up with a drug addict then maybe you should starve, but your kid should go to someone who can actually care for it. Non--profits can not save you.

[dar512]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You should have a license before you are allowed to be pregnant.

You think the government is qualified to decide who should be allowed to be pregnant? Do you really want to give that power to the state?

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

My plan. You should have a license before you are allowed to be pregnant. If your dumb ass hooked up with a drug addict then maybe you should starve, but your kid should go to someone who can actually care for it. Non--profits can not save you.

Srsly. I was asking for your plan so you don't have to pay for anything. Which seems to be the moral bottom line for you. Hey let's work it out so you specifically won't have to pay for anything ever...mmm...K?


Really, what is your other suggestion. It wasn't a rhetorical question. If people aren't doing it right how would you have it done, outside of the ridiculous idea of licenseing. (in which case assholes would also have to get one) Scary ain't it?