Horrifying gang rape & assault on mother & son - Page 9

yesman065 · 07-18-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cicero

They could impress each other with the make and model of their new wheelchairs.

They don't need wheelchairs - they can still walk around????

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Either the judicial system is there to ensure justice, or it's there to provide vengeance. Individual victims may seek vengeance, but society, I believe, should provide justice.

Where does prevention come in or rehabilitation??? I don't think that putting these kids in jail for any period of time is "punishment." They probably have many friends and family members there already anyway - and when they get out they just wear the fact that they were in as a badge of honor.

As for rehab - There is no rehabbing anyone who does something like this - they should simply be shot, injected or whatever - Instead of spending OUR money on keeping them alive, lets put it toward the children that are savable. The judicial system is full of people who are NEVER coming out and we are all paying for them - dearly I might add.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-18-2007, 09:27 AM

Just think of the billions we spend to keep those evil pot smokers locked up.

Radar · 07-18-2007, 07:38 AM

Actually the term is "Cruel AND unusual punishment". If we gave all murderers the death penalty via hand grenade thrown in their cell and all rapists the punishment of having their junk cut chewed off by rabid wolverines, some could call it cruel but it would not be cruel and unusual and would therefore not violate the 8th amendment.

Undertoad · 07-18-2007, 07:45 AM

Thankfully it is the court's interpretation and not yours that counts.

Radar · 07-18-2007, 07:57 AM

Well, that's my main problem with the courts. They try to "interpret" a document that was written in simple English. It doesn't require interpretation. It isn't vague or ambiguous in the slightest. It means exactly what it says and in any case where someone has a question, the tie goes to the runner meaning if there's a case where a power could belong to the government or the people, it belongs to the people.

Undertoad · 07-18-2007, 09:34 AM

It's not the meaning of the word "and" that requires interpretation, it's the meaning of the words "cruel" and "unusual".

Dwellars please follow: according to Radar's "no interpretation necessary" understanding of the US Constitution, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is not "cruel and unusual".

There's no stronger case for the need for court interpretation, instead of Radar non-interpretation. Luckily the framers left the job of interpretation up to the courts instead of just assuming we'd all understand what it says.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-18-2007, 09:37 AM

Unusual is pretty easy, cruel is quite open to interpretation, however.

Wait a minute... If it says cruel and unusual, does that mean it can be cruel if it's not unusual? Or unusual if it's not cruel?

Radar · 07-18-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Unusual is pretty easy, cruel is quite open to interpretation, however.

Wait a minute... If it says cruel and unusual, does that mean it can be cruel if it's not unusual? Or unusual if it's not cruel?

That's exactly what it means. It means a judge can sentence you to stand with a sandwich board around you on a corner that says you are a pedophile. This is unusual, but not cruel.

Radar · 07-18-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

It's not the meaning of the word "and" that requires interpretation, it's the meaning of the words "cruel" and "unusual".

Dwellars please follow: according to Radar's "no interpretation necessary" understanding of the US Constitution, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is not "cruel and unusual".

There's no stronger case for the need for court interpretation, instead of Radar non-interpretation. Luckily the framers left the job of interpretation up to the courts instead of just assuming we'd all understand what it says.

The framers gave the courts no such "interpretation" powers in the Constitution. Also, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is very cruel, but if applied widely to a lot of people it's not unusual. Therefore it's not cruel AND unusual.

There are many who would agree that this is an appropriate form of punishment for child molesters.

yesman065 · 07-18-2007, 09:40 AM

Lets instead use that money for some real rehabilitatable individuals or something where we can actually make a beneficial difference to/for society - not just neatly hiding the evildoers in a corner and feeling good that they were "punished." Wipe this scum off the face of the earth and move on. Help those that want, we can, and deserve our help.

yesman065 · 07-18-2007, 09:53 AM

re: cruel and unusual punishment - Since putting them in prison or juvenile detention doesn't seem to work - JUST a question or 2.

Is the thought of going to jail a deterrent to these types of people? Apparently not - therefore...

Would the thought of their life ending VERY quickly? And I meaqn without years of delays and appeals? I gotta think that even the most immoral assholes gotta value, if nothing else their lives.

Kintups · 07-18-2007, 10:15 AM

It seems fitting that the guilt be burdened by the parents of these criminals. Their death sentence be made manditory to be viewed in person by their parents. As well as full coverage by national Television.
.
The ones who raised these children are certainly more to blame than the perpetrators. Overall more effective on Societys main issue. "Raising the future generations members".
.
Put the blame where it belongs.

wolf · 07-18-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kintups

Put the blame where it belongs.

And that would be the rapists, themselves.

People can be raised in horrible circumstances, and never do horrible things. Yes, parents and community are be contributors to an individual's understanding of and relation to the world, but they are not the sole determinant.

Flint · 07-18-2007, 04:08 PM

If I understand the difference correctly, I believe it is that the juvenile brain and nervous system is not fully developed, things such as impulse control mechanisms. Is that accurate or did I hear that on a televised crime drama? (Which is, incidentally, where criminals often get their stupid ideas.)

Shawnee123 · 07-19-2007, 10:51 AM

Oh, yeah, never mind the question.

07-18-2007, 09:27 AM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Just think of the billions we spend to keep those evil pot smokers locked up. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-18-2007, 07:38 AM	#3
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Actually the term is "Cruel AND unusual punishment". If we gave all murderers the death penalty via hand grenade thrown in their cell and all rapists the punishment of having their junk cut chewed off by rabid wolverines, some could call it cruel but it would not be cruel and unusual and would therefore not violate the 8th amendment. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

07-18-2007, 07:57 AM	#5
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Well, that's my main problem with the courts. They try to "interpret" a document that was written in simple English. It doesn't require interpretation. It isn't vague or ambiguous in the slightest. It means exactly what it says and in any case where someone has a question, the tie goes to the runner meaning if there's a case where a power could belong to the government or the people, it belongs to the people. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

07-18-2007, 09:37 AM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Unusual is pretty easy, cruel is quite open to interpretation, however. Wait a minute... If it says cruel and unusual, does that mean it can be cruel if it's not unusual? Or unusual if it's not cruel? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-18-2007, 04:08 PM	#14
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	If I understand the difference correctly, I believe it is that the juvenile brain and nervous system is not fully developed, things such as impulse control mechanisms. Is that accurate or did I hear that on a televised crime drama? (Which is, incidentally, where criminals often get their stupid ideas.) __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

07-18-2007, 07:45 AM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Thankfully it is the court's interpretation and not yours that counts.

07-18-2007, 09:34 AM	#6
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It's not the meaning of the word "and" that requires interpretation, it's the meaning of the words "cruel" and "unusual". Dwellars please follow: according to Radar's "no interpretation necessary" understanding of the US Constitution, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is not "cruel and unusual". There's no stronger case for the need for court interpretation, instead of Radar non-interpretation. Luckily the framers left the job of interpretation up to the courts instead of just assuming we'd all understand what it says.

07-18-2007, 09:40 AM	#10
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Lets instead use that money for some real rehabilitatable individuals or something where we can actually make a beneficial difference to/for society - not just neatly hiding the evildoers in a corner and feeling good that they were "punished." Wipe this scum off the face of the earth and move on. Help those that want, we can, and deserve our help.

07-18-2007, 09:53 AM	#11
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	re: cruel and unusual punishment - Since putting them in prison or juvenile detention doesn't seem to work - JUST a question or 2. Is the thought of going to jail a deterrent to these types of people? Apparently not - therefore... Would the thought of their life ending VERY quickly? And I meaqn without years of delays and appeals? I gotta think that even the most immoral assholes gotta value, if nothing else their lives.

07-18-2007, 10:15 AM	#12
Kintups Person Who Has Posted Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2	It seems fitting that the guilt be burdened by the parents of these criminals. Their death sentence be made manditory to be viewed in person by their parents. As well as full coverage by national Television. . The ones who raised these children are certainly more to blame than the perpetrators. Overall more effective on Societys main issue. "Raising the future generations members". . Put the blame where it belongs.

07-19-2007, 10:51 AM	#15
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Oh, yeah, never mind the question. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

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