oh! youre a feminist? how cute!

[warch]

I'm a feminist. Proud to be, however you want to spin it. I believe that women and men should be valued equally as human beings. And feminism exists because of the vast histories of this not being the case.

I am thankful for the uppity grandmas that got spit on and thrown in jail to give me the vote and allow me to go to college. Oh, and that dared to "plan their parenthood". I am very glad to have been born in the last half of the 20th century in North America, and of moderate white privilege. If you think the concerns of feminists are passe, trivial, then you really haven't been paying attention to Afghanistan, Sudan, France, Pakistan, Thailand, etc., etc.

Let's look at those tough US female fighter pilots again!
Yeah, I'm a feminist.

[piercehawkeye45]

To build a country you have to work in stages. First you have to establish a base then you have to improve it. Doing only one will just lead to failure.

[Clodfobble]

No, because the minute we do, someone else will come along who hasn't lost those urges and wipe us out. It is a very effective survival skill to want to conquer, own and control.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Or somebody will want what you've got and take it if they can. You can only have what you can defend. And being the biggest bad-ass on the block doesn't guarantee the bigger bad-ass on the next block won't covet your stuff.

So ladies, get involved in the process of running this country....you are the majority, remember. Grind down, or replace, the politicians until they give you the schools, parks, social programs, or whatever you want. Just never make the mistake, that the boys and their tanks and planes are just big over priced play toys. Defending what you've got, is very serious business and paramount to the utopia you want.

Get real, you're never gonna have it all. But rather than grouse about it, why not see how much you can get by getting involved. You may be surprised.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Or somebody will want what you've got and take it if they can. You can only have what you can defend. And being the biggest bad-ass on the block doesn't guarantee the bigger bad-ass on the next block won't covet your stuff.

So ladies, get involved in the process of running this country....you are the majority, remember. Grind down, or replace, the politicians until they give you the schools, parks, social programs, or whatever you want. Just never make the mistake, that the boys and their tanks and planes are just big over priced play toys. Defending what you've got, is very serious business and paramount to the utopia you want.

Get real, you're never gonna have it all. But rather than grouse about it, why not see how much you can get by getting involved. You may be surprised.

Wow, I didn't think I was grousing...just thinking and expressing.

Guess I'll slowly back out of this thread. It's obviously dedicated solely to fact and leaves no room for pondering.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So ladies, get involved in the process of running this country....you are the majority, remember. Grind down, or replace, the politicians until they give you the schools, parks, social programs, or whatever you want. Just never make the mistake, that the boys and their tanks and planes are just big over priced play toys. Defending what you've got, is very serious business and paramount to the utopia you want.

Get real, you're never gonna have it all. But rather than grouse about it, why not see how much you can get by getting involved. You may be surprised.

Hmm, a little condescending and assumptive...but I still love you.

Do not fear, Bruce. Many women of influence are on the same page with you on the subject of a balanced society--plus we also have plenty of ladies whose agendas fall on either side of the balance. Many women want the toys, too. And it's not just women who strive for utopia.

That's what feminism is about--that women are regular human beings, regardless of intelligence or position.

That has always bothered me... women gripe, but don't vote & don't run.
No room to gripe.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

That has always bothered me... women gripe, but don't vote & don't run.
No room to gripe.

Women do vote--campaigns recognize this, and focus many campaign materials specifically on 'women's issues' (whether conservative or liberal). And they run, and win--for example, the number of women in Congress keeps going up with each term.

And c'mon, everybody gripes.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Hmm, a little condescending and assumptive...but I still love you.

Do not fear, Bruce. Many women of influence are on the same page with you on the subject of a balanced society--plus we also have plenty of ladies whose agendas fall on either side of the balance. Many women want the toys, too. And it's not just women who strive for utopia.

That's what feminism is about--that women are regular human beings, regardless of intelligence or position.

Condescending, not at all, just showing how history dictates that strength is necessary.
Assumptive? Maybe... there's no sure way for me to know what someone else is thinking. I can only go by what they communicate.

When men get together for a beer, I never hear one say, wishfully, why do we have to fight, why can't we all get along?
But, I do hear women taking pot shots about how if they were in power instead of men, there wouldn't be any wars and all that defense money could be spent on social improvements.
Now these are both gross generalizations, but both statements are the distilled impression I have, gleaned from 60 years of observation.

Feminism = equality, doesn't it?
Flirting and sexual tension aside, I've been for that since it appeared in the sixties. OK, I was aware of the sweet old ladies going to jail so you could vote. And growing up in the 40s and 50s, I saw a lot of cruel patriarchs. But in the 1964 my wife worked for an Insurance Company in Boston that required women to wear nylons and not smoke in, or near, the building.... when men smoked at their desks. That ain't right. So when the movement came to the forefront, it was awfully hard for a reasonable and rational human being to argue with the premise. It's right, it's fair, it's just.

That said, in practice it's not so easy. Equal pay, equal opportunity, equal consideration are pretty straight forward. But, I keep running into women that have a different take on the details. Some want equal treatment but want to keep certain privileges, whereas some will punch you for attempting to open a door for them.

If a woman says she is in favor of X and I say I disagree, I favor Y. Then she says why is it you men never understand, never get it? Well, wtf. Why did I bother considering X? Why am I genetically defective because I don't agree?
You see, I'm having trouble determining where feminism draws the line on what the constitutes the difference between opinion and sexist opinion.
If I don't say I disagree because your a woman, why should you make that assumption?

Back to the subject. Women are the majority, if the country is moving in the wrong direction, it's your fault. Oww, unfair? Because women are not all the same and fall on both sides of any debate? Well, the same goes for men, so I don't want to hear, you men, blah, blah, blah.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That said, in practice it's not so easy. Equal pay, equal opportunity, equal consideration are pretty straight forward. But, I keep running into women that have a different take on the details. Some want equal treatment but want to keep certain privileges, whereas some will punch you for attempting to open a door for them.

If a woman says she is in favor of X and I say I disagree, I favor Y. Then she says why is it you men never understand, never get it? Well, wtf. Why did I bother considering X? Why am I genetically defective because I don't agree?
You see, I'm having trouble determining where feminism draws the line on what the constitutes the difference between opinion and sexist opinion.
If I don't say I disagree because your a woman, why should you make that assumption?

I agree the lines are blurred and everything is taken personally now days. I still think there is work to be done on salary parity. Other than that I stopped holding the door for any woman other than my wife, elderly people, or people who looked like they needed help. You want things to be equal, let them be equal, both ways. I have never had a woman hold a door for me other than my mother when I was like 6 years old. No special treatment for people because they are female, minority, gay, or any other reason.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

No, because the minute we do, someone else will come along who hasn't lost those urges and wipe us out. It is a very effective survival skill to want to conquer, own and control.

I was speaking of mankind in general, not us and them.

[Aliantha]

What is in us that makes us want to conquer, own, and control? As we evolve, will we ever lose the primal urges of our ancestors?

The Swiss seem to have managed it.

[Phil]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

What is in us that makes us want to conquer, own, and control? As we evolve, will we ever lose the primal urges of our ancestors?

The Swiss seem to have managed it.

the Swiss banks do own everything.

[Clodfobble]

Maybe the conquering part, but I think they're still pretty attached to owning and controlling the land of Switzerland. They certainly wouldn't just politely hand it over without a fuss if someone else wanted it.

[Aliantha]

Well there's not really anything wrong with wanting to control your own country. It's the conquering urge that causes conflict.