02-17-2009, 03:25 AM | #121 | |
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A damning quote from Janet Reno, demonstrating why the NRA-ILA didn't like her at all:
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This is how, if you successfully sweep up all the rifles with automatic transmissions, as it were, you sharply cut the citizenry's physical ability to tell the government to close up shop and go the hell home because its legitimacy is at an end. (The Clinton Administration and its First Lady were really into that sharp cutting away!) Cut that ability far enough and you no longer have a Republic, which is all about the broadest distribution of power. You have, instead, a replay of Nazi Germany. What, once wasn't enough? Learn from history. The power of life and death is about as powerful as power gets, by a force like natural law, not so? Do you not keep a republic by checks and balances on the government as well as within it? This checking and balancing of the government as a whole is an essential every conservative knows about and readily acknowledges, and it remains functional regardless of anything that may go on within the government. We conservatives don't trust government to stay good all the time -- history is positively rife with examples of republics gone bad, and all of these controlled guns, too. There are also numerous examples of monarchies, not very republican at all, having quite the liberal society in encouraging gun possession among the citizenry. There are shades of class differences in every national example of this in Europe, but the classical liberal tenet that a limited monarchy greatly improves over an absolutist one may be borne out by the contrasting governmental philosophies of England and France -- Magna Carta versus "L'état, c'est moi." Seek not to allow the government say in every aspect of your life, says the conservative. Thus you retain the necessary power to do something about a government gone rotten. Liberals always pooh-pooh this -- until they go to the camps and get extinguished. Where are their pooh-poohs then? The great government crime is the crime of genocide -- and its targets NEVER see genocide coming, for it is invariably an ambush. They have no clue at all what they should be concerned about, and this is what makes them die in a hecatomb. But an armed electorate doesn't get herded into the ovens so cheaply. And that is a thing of virtue. A good Jew, I think, would be one who practices that virtue, along with those other 168 Talmudic ones. If you're going to be skeptical about the government, your skepticism had better have teeth, should it not? No government responds properly to mental masturbation, and no guns for you means no attention paid to you. Unresponsiveness to the citizen and his proper rights is the very definition of a tyranny. I contend the well-armed electorate is the nongovernmental reason it can't happen here. Confining the killing tools to the government only is the reason the genocides happened elsewhere. Have checks and balances independent of the government, and the libertarian says have all things independent of the government. In this the libertarian so much resembles the average conservative that it is clear libertarianism is fundamentally a conservative philosophy.
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Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 02-17-2009 at 03:42 AM. Reason: get that final N on the page |
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02-17-2009, 06:28 AM | #122 |
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UG....I'm not interested in debating gun control with you. That was not the issue.
You made some nebulus charge about "suborning of the Department of Justice under Janet Reno" and offered as an example that Reno did not defend the Second Amendment from that Administration's encroachments in the 94 Crime Bill. The fact remains that there was nothing unconstitional in the 94 crime bill when it was proposed and enacted, including the AWB (using the vernacular of the time). So your charge is bogus. |
02-17-2009, 07:18 PM | #123 |
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Gah! Janet Reno. The ugliest Nazi in history. Seriously, she made Goering look like a hottie.
Fact: She was the Queen-Hell gun-grabber. Fact: Her answer to EVERYTHING was to send in goons with submachine guns (Waco, Elian Gonzales, etc). Fact: She was a freedom-hating old hag who regularly used the constitution for shit rag when she couldn't find an orphan. I won't really rest easy until they bury the old bitch...and I hope someone remembers to drive a stake through her heart, first. |
02-17-2009, 09:46 PM | #124 |
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Yeah but do you like her or not?
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02-17-2009, 09:48 PM | #125 |
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02-17-2009, 09:49 PM | #126 |
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02-19-2009, 01:43 AM | #127 | |
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"Assault weapon" is not a term used by the knowledgeable in discussing arms. It is quite without specific meaning, yet it's flung around as a bogeyman: there is nothing in the term to distinguish a big wet rock from a stone axe from a musket from a revolver from a lead pipe from a stick from a.... this is the idea you have hitherto not grasped. The people pushing the "assault weapon" idea were relying on the ignorance of persons who hadn't a knowledge of the matter. Frankly, if you take an antigun view (and no good Jew should take one unless he wants the Holocaust back, because it'll burn better if antigun laws and views are prevalent, for the State always has guns, and it was a State's guns that controlled European Jewry) you have absolutely no hope at all contending with me. The last guy to try it was Spexxvet, and he disgraced himself horribly, getting stared down by the entire Cellar when he lost it and began raving about "hoping someone buttfucks [UG] in the mouth" -- all his antigun ideas written into the thread got pulverized by a combination of me, radar, and xoxoxoBruce.
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02-19-2009, 06:21 AM | #128 | |
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UG....this is not about gun control but rather your charge about "suborning of the Department of Justice under Janet Reno"...
But for the record, I am not anti-gun. I thought the DC gun ban was far too restrictive and unconstitutional. I rarely agree with Scalia, but his decision in Heller works for me: Held:And I still find your comparisons to Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and China, etc. as fear-mongering. The fact that we have an independent juidciary and a system of checks and balances, as demonstrated most recently by the Heller case, makes such comparisons a stretch of one's imagination to the point of paranoia. Back to the issue at hand, please....examples of "suborning of the Department of Justice under Janet Reno".... Quote:
Hit me with your best shot....fire away! Last edited by Redux; 02-19-2009 at 08:03 AM. |
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02-23-2009, 03:22 AM | #129 | ||||
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Then let us make a small beginning with these:
Human Events, 29 Oct 1999: Quote:
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We kept hearing about this kind of thing all through the Clinton Adminstration. This was just a late example. Impeachment proceedings, remember, were initiated about that Administation's distant relationship with veracity and its close relationship with perjury. When you're that kind of operator, having the Attorney General running interference for you is a handy thing to have. From FrontPageMagazine.com, dated March 25, 2004, relating to a deportation proceeding that began in 1997. Mazen al-Najjar was Sami al-Arian's brother in law. Quote:
You may recall the Clinton Administration trying to tame the Internet. Wisely, the Bush Administration didn't take this Nanny State policy anywhere. Quote:
Nor would it end here. One simply sifts the conservative periodicals... and the pro-gun ones.
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Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 02-23-2009 at 03:27 AM. |
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02-23-2009, 05:19 AM | #130 | |
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Yet not one link or footnote in any of those publications to primary sources or any factual data to support their allegations. Another surprise...well, not really! I provide facts and findings about Bush DoJ abuses and/or unlawful acts from primary sources, GAO and internal DoJ reports , and you provide undocumented allegations from periodicals with an anti-Cllinton agenda. Hell, if I wanted to play that game, I could match your conseravtive periodicals and list pages of charges and allegations about the Bush administration from the ACLU, The Nation, or even MoveOn.org. Facts, dude! Not unsubstantiated allegations. Last edited by Redux; 02-23-2009 at 05:44 AM. |
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02-23-2009, 06:47 AM | #131 | ||
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Well it sounds like these two guys have some pretty good credentials. I would tend to believe someone with known credentials over a nameless, faceless Redux. What are yours?
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02-23-2009, 08:01 AM | #132 | |
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It should be documented facts (as in the five DoJ reports I cited) vs undocumented allegations (as in UGs conservative periodicals...lots of heresay, but not one primary source cited or footnoted). Facts v Allegations! |
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02-23-2009, 01:05 PM | #133 | |
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Quote:
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02-23-2009, 01:19 PM | #134 | |
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Quote:
UG made the claim that the Clinhton DoJ committed more unlawful acts than the Bsuh DoJ. I simply asked for cites.....not opinions from conservative and/or gun periodicals, but something comparable to DOJ internal reprots or GAO reports. Not that I really give a fuck. If you and UG think the Clinton DoJ politicized the DoJ more than Bush...thats fine! Its just not worth discussing with you. If UG wants to continue, I'll look foward to seeing cites that resemble facts more than opinions. Last edited by Redux; 02-23-2009 at 01:28 PM. |
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02-23-2009, 06:53 PM | #135 |
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Damn. You guys are good. I envy you.
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