Who doesn't want a Palestinian state? Palestinian leaders, that's who

[Undertoad]

Precisely, Bruce; It takes a lot of hard work to maintain his story... all sorts of twisting and turning. He mentioned Hudson New York five times in his eagerness to discredit the story...

Hudson New York is somehow a responsible fact source? Nonsense.

...but oops, the wire services have it now, with additional information; and according to Google News, 1000 newspapers have published it.

Here it is in the AP, here it is in the AFP.

This is about some so easily manipulated and deceived as to promote unconfirmed speculation - a blog - as fact.

This is about tw, who, presented with facts contrary to his narrative, doubles down on wrong to protect the legacy of a dead man who made billions from terrorism. A Nobel Peace Prize winner who lied, rejected a peace plan to wage war, and caused thousands of deaths without advancing his "cause" one iota.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

...but oops, the wire services have it now, with additional information; and according to Google News, 1000 newspapers have published it.

Did you read your own sources? It does not say it happened. You misrepresent what your own source says. From the AP:

One of the leading figures in Hamas seems to confirm that Yasser Arafat was playing a double game — encouraging Islamic militants to attack inside Israel ...

AP only says one person seems to make your claim. You call that confirmation? Seems even the AP will not confirm your beliefs. Only one person seems to confirm. And no responsible source will confirms that hearsay.

We argued this same "hearsay is proof" reasoning with Saddam's WMDs. People seemed to confirm WMDs existed. That proved Saddam had WMDs. Seems means hearsay - nothing more. Reality - only hearsay from Mahmoud Zahar says Arafat started the Intifada ... oh ... after many years of Israeli provocation including arbitrary confiscation of Palestinian lands through the entire 1990s. Oh. Those west bank settlements just accidently got built there? Likud's agenda is not an accident no matter what you seem to believe. Or did Arafat also order west bank settlements? It seems to be true.

Hudson New York speculation - whose purpose is to "Amplify dissident voices worldwide" (not report facts) - says one person's hearsay contradicts history and chronology. Even your own AP citation refuses to confirm what you believe.

"More commonly cited is September 28, 2000, when Palestinian rioting erupted following Ariel Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount, an area known to Muslims as Al-Haram Al-Sharif." - Wikipedia.

And again, this is not about Intifada II. You said the AP confirms? The AP does not even seem to confirm. Seems is the AP only reporting hearsay from one man.

In cloth used to cover that myth, the seams are splitting. Seams have uncovered more hearsay contradicted by history, facts, intentions, and chronology.

[Undertoad]

Please. The man didn't seem to say it. He said it. He's not just some guy, he's the co-founder of Hamas.

Here's the JPost version, heh

Originally Posted by JPost

"“President Arafat instructed Hamas to carry out a number of military operations in the heart of the Jewish state after he felt that his negotiations with the Israeli government then had failed,” Zahar told students and lecturers at the Islamic University in Gaza City.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Please. The man didn't seem to say it. He said it. He's not just some guy, he's the co-founder of Hamas.

As cofounder of Hamas, he is an arch enemy of Arafat. So he will be honest?

UT, even your own sources will not confirm your beliefs. At what point does the word seem have a meaning?

Your Hudson New York article that says Arafat created the Intifada is also not supported by facts, contradicted by chronology, and sourced by hearsay claims, and not confirmed by any of your citations. You have only one fact. He said something. And that something agrees with your long standing biases that say Jews are good; Palestinians are evil.

Who started Intifada II? "More commonly cited is September 28, 2000, when Palestinian rioting erupted following Ariel Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount, an area known to Muslims as Al-Haram Al-Sharif." That is also undisputed fact as posted here after Sharon, et al did those things to spark violence. To subvert the Oslo Accords.

They even encouraged the assassination of Rabin to subvert a peace process. But instead you blame Arafat on one man's hearsay? It seems so.

[Undertoad]

As co-founder of Hamas, what is his motivation to say he was under direction of Arafat?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

As co-founder of Hamas, what is his motivation to say he was under direction of Arafat?

It is called hate. Lie about Arafat to create hate. Hate is necessary to empower extremists and to make life difficult for moderates - the world's best people. Hate means his followers are inspired. We see same every day from Limbaugh, Beck, and Hannity. Disparage the bourgeois and intelligencia. Then extremists easily recruit followers.

Why would you even ask such a question? Hate is why extremism exists. Hate is why moderate Jews and Arabs could no longer remain moderates. Hate is what Sharon did on Temple Mount. Hate is what inspires the least intelligent humans to *know* how to think and what to do.

A senior Saudi diplomat was blunt about how to defang Hamas. Ignore them. It could happen. But you just empowered Hamas. You gave Mahmoud Zahar credibility. You did exactly what Zahar needs you (and the world) to do to empower Hamas.

Zero facts support Zahar's hearsay. Even the AP will not confirm such claims. Underlying hate feeds what Zahar needs. Zahar hopes most people think and do what you posted. Those myths only promote more hate. People giving credibility to unsubstantiated accusations and extremist leaders even makes recruiting easier. Ignore bogus accusations that are contradicted by so many facts and chronology. As the Saudi diplomat said, a best way to undermine Hamas is to ignore it. You did the opposite.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by tw

And that something agrees with your long standing biases that say Jews are good; Palestinians are evil.

This is projection on your part, and by the way, around here we call them Israelis.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I worked with moderates, I knew moderates, moderates were friends of mine. tw, you're no moderate.