A National ID Card

[jaguar]

that's the word i was looking for
anchors
already there, schweet =)

[jaguar]

WASHINGTON - The government is working with the states to develop a new generation of drivers' licenses that could be checked anywhere and would contain electronically stored information such as fingerprints for the country's 184 million licensed drivers.

From Here.

Interesting, no?

[Griff]

he he

http://www.whitehouse.org/homeland/tattoo.asp

It all comes down to one thing... I have rights... the government does not.
End of story.
It is not my responsibility to keep a record of who I am for them.
If they think I may have done something, as always, they have a job to do.
As always....
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I've met people who believe that SSN is optional (probably), that driver's licenses are unconstitutional (probably not)... even people who believe that the federal income tax is entirely voluntary (definitely not). Some of these people have completely opted out of the system. Once in a while the system coughs one of 'em up and prosecutes the hell out of them to try to make a point.

From what I've seen, they work the system in their various ways, and mostly stay afloat by playing the bureaucracy against itself.

If you live in one of the Provinces, Commonwealths or other "States" that are not states, legally, you do not have to pay federal tax.
If you do not drive, you do not have to carry ID.
If you do not work, you do not have to have an SS#.
All perfectly legal.
They don't like it because bureaucrats and cops are control freaks and anything they can't control scares them, but legal.
People should not fear their government, the government should fear the people. If you don't like that in the job... don't do it.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

If you live in one of the Provinces, Commonwealths or other "States" that are not states, legally, you do not have to pay federal tax.

Hello from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Whomever told you that was repeating a rumor. People have gone to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison for using that logic.

If you do not work, you do not have to have an SS#.

If you have taxable income. Or if you want to do business with any of the organizations, mostly financial, that require it nowadays.

Correct, legal "taxable income".
As for your first statement... the feds break Constitutional law all the time.

[Flint]

RFID Blocking Wallet

[Pangloss62]

I work for the government. Most that do, except for the Executive Branch, actually do care about privacy and liberty.

I just can't bring myself to think that National ID would not be abused, somehow, someway. Otherwise, I would think it would make sense; but not now.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

I work for the government. Most that do, except for the Executive Branch, actually do care about privacy and liberty.

I just can't bring myself to think that National ID would not be abused, somehow, someway. Otherwise, I would think it would make sense; but not now.

I went round and round with the boss of the census office in Philly, this summer. He kept telling me his employees are sworn not to blab any information.
I kept telling him those people didn't worry me at all. What bothered me was information, once gathered, has a way of seeping through large government databases.
As an example of possibilities, I cited some ass at Boeing Corporate, losing a laptop containing unencrypted personal info, including SS numbers, bank account numbers (direct deposit), addresses, employment, etc.....on 191,000 employees.

[WabUfvot5]

It was promised at one time that social security #'s would never be used for identification. Of course we all know how that worked out.

Once you have something like SS#'s or national ID cards it's very difficult, if not impossible, to get rid of it.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Jebediah

It was promised at one time that social security #'s would never be used for identification. Of course we all know how that worked out.

Once you have something like SS#'s or national ID cards it's very difficult, if not impossible, to get rid of it.

First, it was only verbally stated that SS# would not be used for ID. One prerequisite of a national ID program is that it is only to serve the person - not serve government. Having not created such a program, then government is slowly forcing ID programs on us - that are only to serve government. Latest legislation now requires picture ID and now defines what government wants on your 'papers'. These restrictions are becoming so universal that one without a driver's license (or its government equivalent) is denied access to more services every decade.

Second problem with SS# - it cannot be changed. Even your credit cards numbers (so that you can prove to them that they will get paid) are routinely and easily changed because it is a function to serve you. But even worse, once they have your SS#, then it is only time before they can strip your wealth or trash your record - irreversibly.

We desperately need an National ID that is intended only to serve us - 1) so that we can prove we are who we say and 2) so that we can confirm no one is stealing our identity. That means a system intended to serve us - not government (and stated so bluntly), and designed so that we can protect our identity (including a new ID number when necessary).

[WabUfvot5]

I gotta disagree with you tw. I see your point of course but any national ID system, even if designed with the citizen in mind, is rife for a abuse. It does not matter how it's designed if a president or congress gets into office and changes the laws / intent of the system. In your example you use credit cards. One of that factors with those is if you feel they are not protecting your privacy enough you can go elsewhere. Not so with the government, unless you wish to leave the country.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Jebediah

I gotta disagree with you tw. I see your point of course but any national ID system, even if designed with the citizen in mind, is rife for a abuse.

Return to earlier posts. There is nothing that says you must use the system. But the system must be provided since - and again earlier posts - since there is no other alternative to a centralized system. Without a centralized system, then you cannot confirm others are not using your ID.

As system designed to serve the citizens means a system that is not mandatory. Currently, because we have no such system, then the government is slowly imposing a system that serves the government.

An ID system is inevitable. Simply put: do you want one designed to serve you or will you be forced into one designed to serve the government? Current ID legislation put forth by the George Jr administration puts new demands on you only for government benefit. That is the system we will get IF we don't have a system designed to serve citizens.

Remember they are Democrats and Republicans. Just another form of communist party where loyalty to a party is more important than to America. Do independents get what they need or do politicians get what they want? Your choice - but only if you decide up front before the Rush Limbaughs spin more lies for political agendas.

[WabUfvot5]

You cannot make me believe that any national ID would stay voluntary (in the true sense of the word) for very long. How long until they just want to see your "voluntary" ID for buying a new home or applying for a new job or new credit card or any other number of things? It's no longer voluntary at that point since you'd be at a disadvantage not to have one. And no matter what the intent (like say, oh, social security) it can be warped by any new administration that sees it fit to do so.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Jebediah

You cannot make me believe that any national ID would stay voluntary (in the true sense of the word) for very long.

Well it depends on your attitude. We in society absolutely need the convenience and protection afforded by a National ID program. 10% of us are already victims – some permentently scarred – because no such protection exists. And yes, that program can be subverted. Why? Where is your post disparaging the mental midget president for suspending Writ of Habeas Corpus so that he can torture, kidnap, operate secret prisons, and violate the Geneva Conventions? I did not read your strong condemnations. Why not? Why do I so often feel so alone on George Jr’s enemies list?

We need protections from a National ID program and we need to stop George Jr, et al from subverting that need into a government program only to serve government. What scares me is not the program. What scares me is your so silent response even to torture, suspension of Writ of Habeas Corpus, and even wiretapping without judicial review.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I don't need papers in a free nation. There is no reason to prove who I am unless I am, TRULY, suspected of a crime... to the point of being charged.

No. You have the right to not identify yourself. But everyone has the right to then deny you services because they cannot trust you. No one has said you must have ID. That ID and a service to protect your ID are for your benefit. You don't want that benefit, then fine - don't use it. Don't get a privilege to drive a car. Don't use credit cards. Carry massive wads of cash to pay for everything. These conveniences are made available to you only because you can identify who you are.

Worse still, those same conveniences are denied you if you cannot protect your identity – and someone else steals it.