Immigration Enforcement Un-American? - Page 8

TheMercenary · 03-25-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

..because of subconcious prejudice.

How do you substantiate that this exists?

classicman · 03-25-2009, 02:01 PM

ok, I think I got you, so what you are saying is that because a person has subconscious thoughts, then they may be a racist or be predisposed to racist tendencies.

piercehawkeye45 · 03-25-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

How do you substantiate that this exists?

I already told you my two reasons and that it is impossible to prove or disprove since they are personal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

ok, I think I got you, so what you are saying is that because a person has subconscious thoughts, then they may be a racist or be predisposed to racist tendencies.

I would just stick with racial tendencies because throwing in racist is an entire discussion altogether. But yes, if a person has subconcious racist thoughts, they may be predisposed to racist tendencies without knowing it. That is why I argue it is impossible to seperate race from immigration issues because we are constantly judging immigration groups based on race.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-25-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

What are you talking about? What is my issue?

My entire point is that you cannot completely seperate race and immigration because of subconcious prejudice.

When approaching, or are being approached by, a person, I note size, sex, hair, dress, color, body language, etc.

If I know them, I immediately search my memory for previous behavior by that person... friend or foe, like or dislike, etc.

In the case of a stranger I search my memory for previous experiences with people with similar appearance.
Bigger would be more of a threat than smaller, male would be more of a threat than female(except in court),
someone in rags would be more of a threat than in a suit, and so on.

Of course there's no guarantee the well dressed little woman won't kill me, but I have to make a judgment on past experience.
I suppose second hand experience via the media or stories from peers would be in my database too.
I guess you're calling that prejudice, but I have to rely on what I've got.

piercehawkeye45 · 03-25-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I guess you're calling that prejudice, but I have to rely on what I've got.

You turned this into justification for prejudice, which I purposedly avoided. Prejudice is natural and unavoidable and but it does exist and it does becomes greater when we are born into a society with preexisting seperations and prejudices.

If you are attacked by a homeless person with green eyes you will probably avoid the homeless while not avoiding someone with green eyes because you grew up in a society where class seperation and prejudices exist but not eye color seperation and prejudice. So, since we grew up in a society where racial seperation and prejudice exist, we will most likely stereotype racial groups, which effect our perception and "liking" towards them.

I am saying in this from an observational standpoint and remember my intial claim is that we cannot completely seperate racial and immigration issues because of subconcious prejudices. I am not adding morality into here and I am not saying prejudice is justified or not.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-25-2009, 03:18 PM

Not a justification, a reality.
How could I know the person attacking me was homeless? I can't, but I can know they had green eyes, and any other things I can personally see. There is no way I can know a strangers socio-economic, educational, or religious background, I can only go by appearance in one on one situations.

Sure, if you grow up in the city you'll likely be wary of wild animals, from what other people have said, until you have a chance to have your own experiences and form your own opinion.
But that wouldn't necessarily keep you from contributing to wildlife support organizations, because as a human being you have the intellectual capacity to reason wild animals are not bad.

My intellectual capacity tells me that immigrants are not bad, but people that enter this country illegally are criminals and should be removed, not supported.

piercehawkeye45 · 03-25-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Not a justification, a reality.

We both agree its a reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoxBruce

My intellectual capacity tells me that immigrants are not bad, but people that enter this country illegally are criminals and should be removed, not supported.

I don't disagree with this but unless you are going off on your own tangent, this was not my point. I was responding to this quote...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout124

The reality is our current immigration issues have absolutely nothing to do with racial extermination.

which I disagreed with for the reason I have given above.

lookout123 · 03-25-2009, 05:58 PM

Which comes straight out of a freshman level sociology class.

piercehawkeye45 · 03-25-2009, 06:13 PM

Which has anything to do with the argument how?

But then again, the idea that crime is correlated to poverty is straight out of a freshman level sociology class. Being in the lower class must just be a result of being immoral then...

Happy Monkey · 03-25-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

Which comes straight out of a freshman level sociology class.

Isn't "freshman level ... class" another way of saying "basically true, though there are complications you'll get to later"? Which is pretty much the way generalizations are supposed to work?

Bullitt · 03-25-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Which has anything to do with the argument how?

But then again, the idea that crime is correlated to poverty is straight out of a freshman level sociology class. Being in the lower class must just be a result of being immoral then...

And increased ice cream sales means more shark attacks! Oh wait, that's just Summer.

TheMercenary · 03-25-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Isn't "freshman level ... class" another way of saying "basically true, though there are complications you'll get to later"? Which is pretty much the way generalizations are supposed to work?

To which I may add, get back to us in 20 years and let us know if your assumptions have altered.

lookout123 · 03-25-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Isn't "freshman level ... class" another way of saying "basically true, though there are complications you'll get to later"? Which is pretty much the way generalizations are supposed to work?

If it were math or a real science... sure. In this case it is a bunch of people sitting around talking about why life is unfair.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-26-2009, 02:14 AM

Meanwhile, I present without prejudice, Mexico. pfd

slang · 03-26-2009, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

female(except in court),

03-25-2009, 02:01 PM	#107
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	ok, I think I got you, so what you are saying is that because a person has subconscious thoughts, then they may be a racist or be predisposed to racist tendencies. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-25-2009, 03:18 PM	#111
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Not a justification, a reality. How could I know the person attacking me was homeless? I can't, but I can know they had green eyes, and any other things I can personally see. There is no way I can know a strangers socio-economic, educational, or religious background, I can only go by appearance in one on one situations. Sure, if you grow up in the city you'll likely be wary of wild animals, from what other people have said, until you have a chance to have your own experiences and form your own opinion. But that wouldn't necessarily keep you from contributing to wildlife support organizations, because as a human being you have the intellectual capacity to reason wild animals are not bad. My intellectual capacity tells me that immigrants are not bad, but people that enter this country illegally are criminals and should be removed, not supported. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-25-2009, 05:58 PM	#113
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Which comes straight out of a freshman level sociology class. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

03-25-2009, 06:13 PM	#114
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Which has anything to do with the argument how? But then again, the idea that crime is correlated to poverty is straight out of a freshman level sociology class. Being in the lower class must just be a result of being immoral then... __________________ I like my perspectives like I like my baseball caps: one size fits all.

03-26-2009, 02:14 AM	#119
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Meanwhile, I present without prejudice, Mexico. pfd __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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