obama nation

[HungLikeJesus]

I think it's important to know who your ancestors are - so you get their stuff when they die.

[DanaC]

@ Lj: nah that'd be an hysterian:P


tw: I agree with this "History is not unique to any one race (and definitively not unique to genetics). Greek history is the history of all mankind. Chinese history is the history of all mankind. We all inherit our common history." But that doesn't contradict my point. Our individual inheritances and stories are that shared history. To understand the past is to understand much about ourselves. To understand how we came about is to understand much about our past.

At a more visceral level, i want to know the story. My story, yes, but more importantly their stories. Each strand of that ancestry, affords me a direct share in those individual (and yet universal)stories.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

At a more visceral level, i want to know the story. My story, yes, but more importantly their stories. Each strand of that ancestry, affords me a direct share in those individual (and yet universal)stories.

I agree with this as well, but alas I believe the English erased it. :p

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

At a more visceral level, i want to know the story. My story, yes, but more importantly their stories. Each strand of that ancestry, affords me a direct share in those individual (and yet universal)stories.

Why do we not teach Chinese history in public schools? We need the inspiration of their ancestry simply because we do not bother to teach it to students. To me, that is bias that denies so many students (of all genetics) 'their' history.

Why would a member of another race be able to provide you with that historical insight? Because they learned (after birth and not due to genetics) their history and culture.

But again, a Korean teenager who speaks with a southern accent. Why? She is a product of what was learned and experienced AFTER birth. Her genetics did little to make her what she is - except when someone judges her by her Asian characteristics - also called racism. Her genetics did not teach her Korean history and culture.

I can appreciate wanting to learn history of your unique ancestors. But that ancestry only provided some of your genetic uniqueness. It does provide an interesting story. But it defines little of who you are.

If a Chinaman born in the United States, then do you speak Mandarin or know who the Emperor Chu was? Genetics did not define that knowledge; define the man.

The Apple, Dell, or HP computer all have different genetics. And yet the computer is still defined by the environment (domain) that I access. Those genetics do not change the most signficant factor - The Cellar.

[piercehawkeye45]

Are we talking about culture or actual genetics?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Are we talking about culture or actual genetics?

Are they ever that far apart? Other than the adopted child thrust into another culture.

[DanaC]

For me, both. DNA research is a growing and important part of historical study.

[DanaC]

Ancestry defines much in my opinion, if it is something that has been a part of your upbringing. By which I mean the story of your ancestry. It all depends how much you associate in to that story. I personally associate in very strongly. It matters to me what strands there are to my ancestry and what branches to my family tree.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Ancestry defines much in my opinion, if it is something that has been a part of your upbringing. By which I mean the story of your ancestry. It all depends how much you associate in to that story. I personally associate in very strongly. It matters to me what strands there are to my ancestry and what branches to my family tree.

Our family vacation this summer included a trip to Plymouth. MA, where we took a tour of the house where my ancestor (John Howland) lived after he came over on the Mayflower. It was an old house, and it was interesting to see how he had lived. It's nice to know the story of at least one branch of my family. My kids seemed to really enjoy it, and they actually got t-shirts that contain the names of the Mayflower passengers so they can point out their ancestors, some through their mom, and some through me.

What's not so nice is to learn that I'm related to Sarah Palin through some of the same Pilgrims. The names in bold are our shared ancestors.

Palin’s Mayflower ancestors include William Brewster, John Howland, Stephen Hopkins, Joan (Hurst) Rogers, John and Elizabeth Tilley, and Richard Warren. She also descends from Thomas Prence, an early governor of Plymouth Colony, and her pedigree is laden with numerous pre-1650 immigrants from England.

[Shawnee123]

I'm quite proud if a little fuzzy on my ancestry. Native American on mom's side, Swiss on the other (my maiden name is from the french speaking part of Switzerland.)

How opposite are those backgrounds? Though there are many many other tidbits mixed in, those are the ones that stand out, and I wish I knew more.

Anecdotally, I know my great great grandparents were scouts for the union army, knowing the lay of the land and assisting. This is what my (maternal) grandpa told me before he passed away, and I have no proof and don't even know if the ages would work out.

My great grandfather (paternal) came from Switzerland to the town in which I currently live and he started a cigar shop. I have some old cigar molds, and my parents have a chair, an old cigar press, and many molds and labels. Sadly, the building has been torn down (was on Main St.) My town is full of people who are mostly second and third cousins (my more immediate family is from another smallish town nearby) with the same last name as my maiden name. The history is quite interesting to me, but I should do research to know more.

Does it all really matter? I guess not in the grand scheme, but it's part of who I am. I see very strong traits from my mother's side.

[Aliantha]

It's more about the culture those genetics bring to most families tw. It's pretty obvious to most of us taking part in this discussion.

Of course you can argue nature versus nurture if you want, but it's been done. Of course a chinese girl doesn't know her culture unless someone teaches her, but if she's born into a chinese household, she's likely to be taught many different aspects of chinese culture by her family while learning American culture outside the home and those two different cultures will meld into something else which will affect how her own children are raised etc etc etc...

[tw]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Of course you can argue nature versus nurture if you want, but it's been done. Of course a chinese girl doesn't know her culture unless someone teaches her, but if she's born into a chinese household, she's likely to be taught many different aspects of chinese culture by her family while learning American culture outside the home and those two different cultures will meld into something else which will affect how her own children are raised etc etc etc...

In which case, you make my point. She is defined by factors after birth - learning from family, education, neighborhood, and social experiences.

I am having difficulty understanding DanaC's point; why genetics so defines a person. I believe genetics is only significantly relevant when society is so racist as to judge based upon first impressions.

Secondary point: racism is not about race or genetics. Racism is bias based on first impressions.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by tw

In which case, you make my point. She is defined by factors after birth - learning from family, education, neighborhood, and social experiences.

I am having difficulty understanding DanaC's point; why genetics so defines a person. I believe genetics is only significantly relevant when society is so racist as to judge based upon first impressions.

Secondary point: racism is not about race or genetics. Racism is bias based on first impressions.

tw, you never stated your point. You simply argued against Dana's. Who's to know that you're arguing nurture if you don't state your case clearly.

Argue all you like, but you're very difficult to understand most of the time.

[Aliantha]

Well, you'd still be a product of the family you're brought up in if you believe in nurture rather than nature.

[DanaC]

I didnt say genetics defines a person. I said its a part of what we are. More importantly the genetic journey that led to each of us is an important story, individually and on a wider level.