obama nation

[Aliantha]

It's more about the culture those genetics bring to most families tw. It's pretty obvious to most of us taking part in this discussion.

Of course you can argue nature versus nurture if you want, but it's been done. Of course a chinese girl doesn't know her culture unless someone teaches her, but if she's born into a chinese household, she's likely to be taught many different aspects of chinese culture by her family while learning American culture outside the home and those two different cultures will meld into something else which will affect how her own children are raised etc etc etc...

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I totally disagree with most of this statement.

Where my parents came from and the things that influenced their lives had a great influence on mine. They became the parents they were because of their social, emotional and economic circumstances during childhood right up to the time of my birth and beyond which of course affected how they parented me and what sort of examples they set for me as a child.

The same can be said of their parents and their parents parents ad nauseum, so yes, what happened to my ancestors does have a direct effect on who I am today, without one shadow of a doubt in my mind.

But what if you were switched at birth and no one knew?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Of course you can argue nature versus nurture if you want, but it's been done. Of course a chinese girl doesn't know her culture unless someone teaches her, but if she's born into a chinese household, she's likely to be taught many different aspects of chinese culture by her family while learning American culture outside the home and those two different cultures will meld into something else which will affect how her own children are raised etc etc etc...

In which case, you make my point. She is defined by factors after birth - learning from family, education, neighborhood, and social experiences.

I am having difficulty understanding DanaC's point; why genetics so defines a person. I believe genetics is only significantly relevant when society is so racist as to judge based upon first impressions.

Secondary point: racism is not about race or genetics. Racism is bias based on first impressions.

[Aliantha]

Well, you'd still be a product of the family you're brought up in if you believe in nurture rather than nature.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by tw

In which case, you make my point. She is defined by factors after birth - learning from family, education, neighborhood, and social experiences.

I am having difficulty understanding DanaC's point; why genetics so defines a person. I believe genetics is only significantly relevant when society is so racist as to judge based upon first impressions.

Secondary point: racism is not about race or genetics. Racism is bias based on first impressions.

tw, you never stated your point. You simply argued against Dana's. Who's to know that you're arguing nurture if you don't state your case clearly.

Argue all you like, but you're very difficult to understand most of the time.

[DanaC]

I didnt say genetics defines a person. I said its a part of what we are. More importantly the genetic journey that led to each of us is an important story, individually and on a wider level.

[HungLikeJesus]

tw could save the world,

...if only someone knew what the heck he was trying to say.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

But what if you were switched at birth and no one knew?

Separated at birth could be a bigger problem. "Brother!"

[Pie]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

The same can be said of their parents and their parents parents ad nauseum, so yes, what happened to my ancestors does have a direct effect on who I am today, without one shadow of a doubt in my mind.

I wasn't asking about history that has a direct influence, via one's parents and upbringing. I am talking about getting a genetic assay to find out that some percentage of your DNA is from, say, Mongolia.

Why would this be relevant to anyone?

[Aliantha]

For me it'd be interesting, but I wouldn't say that being part mongolian made me who I am. What happened to my ancestors as mongolians would have had an effect on who I am though.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

*nods*

I watched it again on youtube today. He said exactly what America and the world have been waiting to hear I think; unity, hope and strength.

Everyone's talking about it here. I cannot tell you how much this elevates your nation in our eyes. I had my ICQ running whilst I was studying last night, with the TV on as well. A good friend and ex-neighbour of mine was messaging me, just awestruck that you'd done it. The nervousness of the first polls closing, and the ardent hope was absolutely shared by people all over the world. My friend, a northern lad not much given to sentimentality, told me he had tears streaming down his face as we realised it was going to be an Obama victory on the night.

As a sidebar to this: the subject of my research last night was an 18th century journal, written by the wife of a naval officer who accompanied him on his travels. In one entry she describes them going aboard a slave carrying ship. There had been an outbreak of disease, with the captain, some crew and slaves affected. In order to stop the spread of the disease, the sick slaves were thrown overboard.

I read her description (she describes it as an inhuman act) of this event, one hour before I saw the son of a black man, married to a descendant of both slaves and slave owners, address the American nation, and the world, as President Elect of the USA.

Bloody hell. Just bloody hell.

Well stated. HOF material for me.

[Pie]

People have implied that I am somehow a traitor to my "race" since I do not strongly identify as "Indian-American". I resent the implication that someone outside of me can tell me who I am, based on an happenstance of genetics.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Pie

I wasn't asking about history that has a direct influence, via one's parents and upbringing. I am talking about getting a genetic assay to find out that some percentage of your DNA is from, say, Mongolia.

Why would this be relevant to anyone?

Because it is part of what we are, who we are, the genetic journey that led to us.

People have implied that I am somehow a traitor to my "race" since I do not strongly identify as "Indian-American". I resent the implication that someone outside of me can tell me who I am, based on an happenstance of genetics.

Nobody outside yourself can tell you who you are. These questions of genetics are only relevant if you are interested and intriged to know.

[TheMercenary]

My surname has been directly and accurately traced to here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raasay

The other to here (mother):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Cavan

[DanaC]

Interesting, thanks merc.