Merry F'in Christmas - I want a divorce.

[Trilby]

the thing with BPD though is that people usually don't become BPD overnight, or, even over a few years. It's a personality disorder which stems from family of origin issues (and maybe a little genetics) and doesn't just happen when someone is in their thirties. It manifests in the early years. I don't think it's BPD. My two cents.

[fargon]

My X wife, an over-educated under-achiever, after selling everything that I had accumulated over almost 30 years of work told me to go get a job and that I did not need tools or or a car or anything else. And that I was a worthless turd. I played her game for 3 months. Then went back on the road. After several months of happy "singleness", I met the wonderful and incredibly cute Lady Rebecca. After almost 4 years together and me getting very sick being hospitalized many times, and even being homeless for a time, we are still together, and Love each other more every day. It's like waking up every morning with your best friend.

Originally Posted by Brianna

the thing with BPD though is that people usually don't become BPD overnight, or, even over a few years. It's a personality disorder which stems from family of origin issues (and maybe a little genetics) and doesn't just happen when someone is in their thirties. It manifests in the early years. I don't think it's BPD. My two cents.

Bri, yeah! You're a professional, too! How could I have forgotten? Never mind, don't answer that! Yes, from everything I've been able to learn on the subject, PD's are pretty much an on-going problem. Isn't it true, though, that symptoms can worsen if the person is under stress of some sort, or going through a life change of one type or another? Or am I confused on that point? Anyhow, that's why I asked if Lookout had noticed these things in general before the current spate of difficulties with the Mrs. If these symptoms just popped up last month, its my understanding, too, that they would probably be less likely about a PD and more about some other problem instead.


PS Get outta that bell jar, girl! There's no air in those damn things! Read Mary Oliver, I'm telling ya!

[wolf]

If your wife has not been a random fomenter of chaos throughout your marriage, she did not suddenly wake up one day as a borderline.

Don't obsess over stuff like that.

I DO diagnose people for a living, and I have a better-then-fair ability to do so based on a written description. I decline to do so here because all of the evidence is not in.

Well, since you're here, Wolf, can I ask a question? I'm thinking more of Narcissistic Personality Disordered folks, now - like the hell being I became involved with. At the beginning, there WERE some things off about him. The biggest for sure was his strange story of his bro's murder/suicide out in Cali and his own jail time for the lost key escapade??????

But I have to say that other than that one bizarre tale which I was never able to put all the bits together on until 6 years later, the man seemed VERY normal. In a wierd way.

He'd had a rough childhood, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. He was (is) a gifted musician. When he was "on" he could have won an Oscar for his his three star performances. It took a really long time for me to even begin to comprehend just how badly off the whole thing was.

In my case at least I can blame the fact that I was breathing air with a content of 2% CO when I met him. You could get lots past me back then. His new GF ISN'T being poisoned (that I know of), runs her own business and works part time doing tax returns for H and R Block. She buys the man's story as completely as I did.

My therapist has met the ax murderer and she confirms to me that yep, he's NPD, and most likely a psychopath, as well. My therapist is NOT given to wild eyed pronouncements, by the way. She's one of the most cautious, conservative people I know.

So, in my long winded way, I guess what I am asking is do PD types in general tend to be good at pulling the wool over other people's eyes or is it just the NPD flavor who turn deception into an art form?

Not to derail Lookout's thread, but still almost a year later, I am filled with stunned disbelief of who the man I was with actually turned out to be.

[WabUfvot5]

Damn lookout. I'm not sure what to say. Have you just up and called her out on this nutty behavior? Sometimes the only way to put an end to something is to confront it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by wolf

If your wife has not been a random fomenter of chaos throughout your marriage, she did not suddenly wake up one day as a borderline.

Where/how do you draw the line between "random fomenter of chaos" and someone that's spontaneous, adventurous and easily bored? Someone whos shakes up the status quo frequently?
Not sure I put that clearly, hopefully you'll decipher what I'm trying to ask.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Where/how do you draw the line between "random fomenter of chaos" and someone that's spontaneous, adventurous and easily bored? Someone whos shakes up the status quo frequently?
Not sure I put that clearly, hopefully you'll decipher what I'm trying to ask.

Incisive.

OK Cellar, today's assignment is to add "Betty Blue" to your netflix queue. We'll reconvene after everyone's seen it.

for extra credit compare "angel baby"

[wolf]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Where/how do you draw the line between "random fomenter of chaos" and someone that's spontaneous, adventurous and easily bored? Someone whos shakes up the status quo frequently?
Not sure I put that clearly, hopefully you'll decipher what I'm trying to ask.

There is fun and amusing chaos, and difficult, hurtful chaos that sometimes even crosses the border into evil.

Once you see it a couple times, you know from then on.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I think I've seen it. I think I married it once.

[lookout123]

bad bad night. we were with another couple and she got smashed, although she says she barely has a buzz. not too many 122 lb girls can drink 14 beers in a 5 hour period and only be a "little buzzed".

cruel. insulting. provocative. she brought up an incident from 6 years ago that has been long settled. except now she says that i've never told her the truth. she has known exactly what happened since shortly after the event - but apparently has recently decided i'm lying.

my head says to pack up my things and my boy and split. my heart says that i love her and i have to take this as far as possible in trying to help her.

i know i am at a disadvantage being the male, but if i split what are my chances of having my son live with me (and have visits with her)? there is no documented evidence of alcoholism, substance abuse, or anything else major. even if there was, i don't think i would want to drag that type of thing out in court.

Lookout, a 200 pound man who drank that much in that short a period would have a drinking problem. She was averaging almost 3 beers an hour. I could do that myself if I wanted to (I don't), but I sure would be more than a little buzzed if I did and I'd have to go into training for the event. I hate to be a broken record here, but substance abuse of some sort certainly seems to be going on. A gal doesn't develop a capacity like that out of nowhere.

As far as documenting stuff, you just have. Then there was the incident when she went out with the girls. There was another incident before that. You've been documenting her behavior in your posts right here to the Celler. Go back and re-read your own posts.

I don't have the faintest idea what the courts might do. However, you need to ask yourself, do you want your son possibly driving in the car with her when she's under the influence? Do you want him to be subjected to the way she behaves when she's had too much to drink or is using some other substance?

Your love and loyalty for your wife is deeply touching, but I am going to be cruel to be kind. You are describing the behavior of an alcoholic/addict. A person who is using is in love with their drug of choice. Period. Everything else, human beings included, come in a distant second.

An actively using person's behavior mimics that of someone with a personality disorder. Underneath the drug or alcohol, there may be a wonderful caring person. Unfortunately, for that person and everyone close to them, they don't get to be that decent person as long as they continue to use.

If you seperate from your wife and take your son with you, you may actually be doing the kindest, most loving thing possible for your wife. As long as you sign off on her behavior by sticking around and taking it, she'll be able to stay in denial and tell herself that things aren't so bad.

Have you had that appointment with the shrink or therapist yet? You need to be gut level honest when you go in for that and describe all the behaviors you have shared with us here. You may indeed have to bring these things up in court for your son's sake, Lookout.

I wish I could give you a more optimistic opinion, but given everything you have described so far, your wife has some serious issues. If she continues to refuse to address them, your responsibility is to make sure your son is spared the impact of her behaviors as much as possible.

I am so sorry that you have to go through all this.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Seems to me if she wanted to break the marriage she could in a heartbeat. Even tell a bullshit story to the cops and have you removed from the domicile, it happens all the time.
Instead, she's playing head (and heart) games, being obnoxious, grasping at anything she can think of to drive you to walking (running) away thinking it's your fault. It's not
Makes me wonder if she has a plan, just playing it by ear or just irrational?
She hasn't rolled across the room like a hoop or projectile vomited yet, has she?

[LabRat]

I'm still sticking to my depression theory, which brings me to my own experience. My husband wanted me to get help because obviously he could see I had a problem much better than I could. However, because I didn't think I had a problem, getting me to a doctor was about impossible. Finally, some friends also noted that I was a little edgy and moody, and THAT is what it took for me to take notice. Don't ask me why a woman will listen to her friends before her spouse, but it did the trick. I don't beleive he had anything to do with that, because he pretty much didn't like any of my friends at the time

Are you close to any of her friends/sisters that you could discuss your wife's current mood swings with? Basically, find out if they are seeing the same things that you are. Maybe encourage them to mention to her what they are seeing. Leaving you and your marriage out of it of course. Maybe hearing that someone else is worried about her will help her see that there might be something wrong. I really am rooting for you, this sucks. I hope your little one is doing OK.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by lookout123

i know i am at a disadvantage being the male, but if i split what are my chances of having my son live with me (and have visits with her)? there is no documented evidence of alcoholism, substance abuse, or anything else major. even if there was, i don't think i would want to drag that type of thing out in court.

If you split and successfully take the kid with you, your chances are very good. If you split and leave the kid, you're screwed. The courts in general are reluctant to change something unless there's significant reason for it. If your son is already living with you, and she didn't try to call the police about a kidnapping immediately after finding the two of you gone, then she has already shown that she acknowledges you to be an equal if not superior situation for him, and she will have a very hard time getting the courts to actively take him from you to give to her. Just as you will if you leave him behind.