Saddam to Swing - Page 8

Shawnee123 · 12-04-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Oh come on. Prisons are not pleasant places to be......the average time it takes a new arrival to be raped in an American prison is fifteen minutes.

Especially if you're a rapist or child molestor yourself..."regular" criminals hate that! And if you're a cop killer the guards hate that.

Hang on to your soap.

12-04-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

Just a question here NOT an opinion. Would the death penalty actually function as a deterrent if it was carried out MUCH faster? I agree with you to a point rz, but if the death penalty actually worked at preventing someone from committing a crime (which I don't think it does now) how many lives would be saved. Furthermore, the cost on society and the ability to shift the funds spent keeping these criminals alive were shifted to rehab programs or any of many other viable options would that save even more lives?? I don't know and I don't think our society would ever do it, but it does merit some thought at least - no?

In places where it has been used in that way, it did not work and does not now in places that try. This point has been made earlier in this thread or another in which we were discussing this topic.
I don't think it merits thought, because I don't feel it is worth becoming a murderer just to seek vengeance.
More death and destruction does not solve anything, it only does more harm to us and continues the cycle.

Clodfobble · 12-04-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

the average time it takes a new arrival to be raped in an American prison is fifteen minutes.

Please tell me that was hyperbole. Otherwise, I'd really, really like to see a cite for that. Really, I would.

DanaC · 12-04-2006, 05:38 PM

I can't remember now where I read that factet. It was in a newspaper report ( I think the Guardian) about three years ago.

I did manage to find an interesting article on the subject though. It doesn't give the average time for an inmate to be raped but it does highlight the scale of the problem

Quote:

From ‘Forecasting Sexual Abuse in Prison: The prison Structure of Masculinity as a Backdrop for “deliberate Indifference”’, in The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Vol 92, no. 1 (2001)

On August 9, 1973, Stephen Donaldson, a Quaker peace activist, was arrested for trespassing after participating in a pray-in at the White House. Upon refusal to post a ten-dollar bond on moral grounds, Donaldson was sent to Washington D.C. jail. In the days that followed, Donaldson experienced a terror that is far too common for tens of thousands of inmates in American correctional institutions. In the course of Donaldsons’ two nights behind bars, he was gang-raped approximately sixty times by numerous inmates. Upon his release Donaldson did what few others have had the strength and courage to do: he spoke out. Donaldson was among the first survivors of jailhouse rape to come forward publicly to describe his abuse………

Experts in the field of prisoner sexual abuse estimate that over 60,000 prisoners are subjected to involuntary sex every day ( Can we put an End to Inmate Rape? U.S.A Today Magazine 1995).

“ It is the rare convict who will never engage in homosexual acts” Lou Torak, ‘Straight talk from Prison: A Convict Reflects on Youth’ in Crime and Society, 40, (1974).

The article goes on to suggest that the vast majority of these acts are not driven by “mutual attraction or affection”, but rather “most sexual acts in prison are the coerced products of dominance, intimidation and terror”.

Clodfobble · 12-04-2006, 08:13 PM

A large-scale study of American prisons says only 1 in 5 prisoners have ever had forced sexual contact, and only 7% are actually raped.

Quote:

Sexual-coercion rates in seven prison facilities for men in midwestern states were assessed... Results showed that 21% of the inmates had experienced at least one episode of pressured or forced sexual contact since incarcerated in their state... At least 7% of the sample had been raped in their current facility.

Not to say that 21% is okay, because it definitely isn't--but it sure as hell doesn't translate into 15 minutes before the "average" prisoner is raped, since the average prisoner (i.e. the majority of them) isn't ever raped.

Aliantha · 12-04-2006, 08:23 PM

I've been doing a bit of searching since Dana posted that stat and unfortunately can't find anything which either supports or refutes it.

I have found quite a number of sites which claim stats similar to those you've posted Clod, although most of them have the disclaimer that the statistics are based on 'reported abuses' and are not necessarily representative of the true number of rapes which take place.

JayMcGee · 12-04-2006, 08:35 PM

I'm getting quite confused here....

as I understand it, the pro-execution peeps want to go that route 'cos killing other peeps is wrong?

Aliantha · 12-04-2006, 08:37 PM

lol

Shawnee123 · 12-05-2006, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

A large-scale study of American prisons says only 1 in 5 prisoners have ever had forced sexual contact, and only 7% are actually raped.

Not to say that 21% is okay, because it definitely isn't--but it sure as hell doesn't translate into 15 minutes before the "average" prisoner is raped, since the average prisoner (i.e. the majority of them) isn't ever raped.

Um...what is the difference between "forced sexual contact" and "actually raped?"

Clodfobble · 12-05-2006, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Um...what is the difference between "forced sexual contact" and "actually raped?"

Getting your ass or junk grabbed, having your leg dry-humped, having your nipple pinched...

xoxoxoBruce · 12-05-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Oh come on. Prisons are not pleasant places to be......the average time it takes a new arrival to be raped in an American prison is fifteen minutes.

Not on death row, no contact with other prisoners. Pleasant is relative, I wouldn't find it pleasant, at all, but it sure beats being in the general prison population.

Urbane Guerrilla · 12-05-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

as I understand it, the pro-execution peeps want to go that route 'cos killing other peeps is wrong?

Hey, the perp gets to see just how he likes being put to death. I call that fair.

Aliantha · 12-05-2006, 10:53 PM

You didn't get the irony UG? lol Or you're just trying to be funny again?

Urbane Guerrilla · 12-10-2006, 08:33 PM

He's trying to be ironic for no worthwhile reason. I'm serving him notice that his irony is therefore a failure. In an ironic tone, no less. :p

Anti-death-penalty people just don't come off as either practical or, ultimately, moral.

And if the death penalty is so ineffective as a deterrent, can you explain then why, with the option available to waive appeals at any stage, less than one condemned in a hundred does anything other than exercise all of his appeals? The big reason death sentences are so costly in the United States is because we are as a rule meticulous in how we apply them: we spend the money being careful. Contrast this with the Chinese method, if you like.

Aliantha · 12-10-2006, 08:37 PM

So because China - in your eyes - is more brutal about the way they put people to death means that the US - in your eyes - is better or less wrong?

Do you see any double standard in the view you have expressed here UG?

I see someone trying to condemn someone else for doing the same thing but differently. That's a double standard. Where's the morality there?

12-04-2006, 08:23 PM	#111
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I've been doing a bit of searching since Dana posted that stat and unfortunately can't find anything which either supports or refutes it. I have found quite a number of sites which claim stats similar to those you've posted Clod, although most of them have the disclaimer that the statistics are based on 'reported abuses' and are not necessarily representative of the true number of rapes which take place. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

12-04-2006, 08:35 PM	#112
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	I'm getting quite confused here.... as I understand it, the pro-execution peeps want to go that route 'cos killing other peeps is wrong? __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

12-04-2006, 08:37 PM	#113
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	lol __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

12-05-2006, 10:53 PM	#118
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	You didn't get the irony UG? lol Or you're just trying to be funny again? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

12-10-2006, 08:33 PM	#119
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	He's trying to be ironic for no worthwhile reason. I'm serving him notice that his irony is therefore a failure. In an ironic tone, no less. :p Anti-death-penalty people just don't come off as either practical or, ultimately, moral. And if the death penalty is so ineffective as a deterrent, can you explain then why, with the option available to waive appeals at any stage, less than one condemned in a hundred does anything other than exercise all of his appeals? The big reason death sentences are so costly in the United States is because we are as a rule meticulous in how we apply them: we spend the money being careful. Contrast this with the Chinese method, if you like. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 12-10-2006 at 10:08 PM.

12-10-2006, 08:37 PM	#120
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	So because China - in your eyes - is more brutal about the way they put people to death means that the US - in your eyes - is better or less wrong? Do you see any double standard in the view you have expressed here UG? I see someone trying to condemn someone else for doing the same thing but differently. That's a double standard. Where's the morality there? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

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