Obama's Dog

[classicman]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I was persuaded out of it by my then partner and my brother.

You dated your brother???

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

If you have an animal and you aren't planning on breeding it, why wouldn't you spay/neuter it?

You seem to lack reading skills SP

I have a two lb Chihuahua technically under this law I would have to pay $150 for her because technically she is capable of producing offspring and because having one breedable female I am considered a kennel so I would then have to pay $500 but no one in their right mind would breed a 2 lb dog and most veterinarians would not perform surgery on a dog that small when it is not an emergency.

Spay/Neuter is an important medical decision that should be made for each individual pet only after careful consultation with the pet's veterinarian, instead of mandated at a fixed age by the government.

[glatt]

2 lb dogs are sterile? I honestly don't know.

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I support every single thing listed on that link. In California, the people get to vote on issues like this. I know, I lived there for 10 years, and I voted on the horse meat issue. California is a very pet-oriented state, and the people there will probably vote to protect animals.

In addition, the link you provided to the legislation, it seemed pretty reasonable to me.

The people in Los Angeles did not vote on that issue their representatives did and I think you will see a change in representatives because of their actions.

How are animals being protected when neutering is mandatory? Many of the people that have lower incomes will be dumping their animals because they cannot afford the procedures or the fines for not having the neutering done. This will cost the city of Los Angeles more money and more dogs will be euthanized. I am sure when the tax rates go up to cover the cost of that fiasco some of the people are not going to think it was reasonable.

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by glatt

2 lb dogs are sterile? I honestly don't know.

No they are too small for surgery to be done safely. So I have a choice maybe a dead dog or a live intact dog. Guess I choose live intact dog.

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

No they are too small for surgery to be done safely. So I have a choice maybe a dead dog or a live intact dog. Guess I choose live intact dog.

I do not have this choice or the right if I lived in Los Angeles. Many other people with other problems that cannot put their pet thru a surgery in Los Angeles do not have the right to choose. Your rights are being taken away little by little.

[Shawnee123]

From an animal rights perspective, and no I'm not PETA, it seems to me to be cruel to have designer dogs beget designer dogs that are ill-equipped for a birthing process, knowing full well surgery is probably doing to have to be done. You say spaying is more dangerous...I don't think that makes sense.

However, the initial point of this thread, if I understood correctly, was that people who think they are "rescuing" dogs may be getting a dog that isn't A-Number One Top of the Chop Dog, and isn't that too up to the family and the vet? Somehow, they have failed miserably in doing good?

For instance, you imply that they may have been abused, and inclined to meanness. What about an entire breed in which everything I read about it is their poor temperment, that is borne to that specific breed?

Many of us will love our critters, flaws and all, just as we love our flawed humans.

[classicman]

Amen.

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

From an animal rights perspective, and no I'm not PETA, it seems to me to be cruel to have designer dogs beget designer dogs that are ill-equipped for a birthing process, knowing full well surgery is probably doing to have to be done. You say spaying is more dangerous...I don't think that makes sense.

However, the initial point of this thread, if I understood correctly, was that people who think they are "rescuing" dogs may be getting a dog that isn't A-Number One Top of the Chop Dog, and isn't that too up to the family and the vet? Somehow, they have failed miserably in doing good?

For instance, you imply that they may have been abused, and inclined to meanness. What about an entire breed in which everything I read about it is their poor temperment, that is borne to that specific breed?

Many of us will love our critters, flaws and all, just as we love our flawed humans.

Well you cannot believe everything you read , experience outweighs speculation. A designer dog is the cross breeding of two different breeds to get a "special dog" a designer created mutt, so I am not sure what you mean by your statement on designer dogs.

Rescued dogs generally come from pet mills that went under or were raided for abusive care. These are dogs that have lived their entire life as breeding machines usually in confinement. A situation that I believe is not good for raising dogs. Some are permanently damaged mentally from that type of situation. Rarer breeds like the Portuguese Water Dogs are not going to be in rescue situations because they are not an easy breed to get or any easy breed to market by commercial pet millers. I never said they were inclined towards meanness some are just cage crazy or so shy if you pick them up they crap down the front of your shirt. Not really a dog suited for a family with children. {some rescue dogs}

People trained in animal husbandry learn selective breeding. Ethical breeders would select against traits that they find undesirable. I prefer free whelping dogs but sometimes that doesn't happen. That's why you prepare in the beginning by finding the best veterinary care available to you. I have cows and one would not expect that they would need a c section but every once in awhile that baby is not coming out. Rather than have the mother and the baby die by the miracle of modern veterinary medicine c sections are available.

What makes the surgery dangerous is the anesthetic and dogs die every day from dental cleanings, shall we not clean teeth?

[Nirvana]

This thread is not about dogs that are well bred its about dogs that are raised correctly in an environment where the breeder has taken the time to socialize them so they are suitable as a family pet. There is a critical time period in a puppy's life where this has to take place [4-12 weeks] and commercial kennels are only interested in weaning puppies and getting them out the door. Their human contact is limited. That does not mean they have to have 30 champions in their pedigree or have a pedigree at all to achieve this...I am not a dog snob I have had my fair share of JSU's and I love them just as much as my purebred dogs.

[Nirvana]

In Defense of Animals is seeking a donation of $1 with every purchase made on eBay.

Most people would probably react that this "a great way to help animals and they've made it so easy I'll do it."

The vast majority of donors would not realize this is a hard-core animal rights organization (on par with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) and they would send that buck without checking what it was really going to be used for.

From http://www.idausa.org/

"It is the policy of In Defense of Animals to no longer use language that accepts the current concept of animals as property, commodities and/or things. Rather than refer to ourselves or others as "owners" of animals we share our
lives with, we now refer to ourselves and others as "guardians" of our animal friends and to animals as "he" or "she" rather than "it."

The president of "In Defense of Animals," Dr. Elliott Katz, said in 1997: " It is time we demand an end to the misguided and abusive concept of animal ownership. The first step on this long, but just, road would be ending the concept of pet ownership."

Please let your friends and family know In Defense of Animals is an anti-pet organization. If they want to help animals, they can make a donation to a local no-kill shelter, to breed rescue, or to an organization fighting for pet owners' rights. Give them the name of a group you support, or help them find one worthy of their contribution. If you or a family member are eBay enthusiasts, you could counter the IDA campaign by keeping track of your purchases (or sales) and donating a small percentage of your monthly total to an organization that actually does something FOR pets and our right to have them.

[classicman]

Lemme think this thru a sec.
Currently animals are YOUR property. YOU are upset that because of this the gov't is proposing to tax you or whatever as a breeder. This organization is promoting an end to animal ownership. The gov't won't be able to tax you since you no longer legally own them.
Why aren't you supporting this?

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I support every single thing listed on that link. In California, the people get to vote on issues like this. I know, I lived there for 10 years, and I voted on the horse meat issue. California is a very pet-oriented state, and the people there will probably vote to protect animals.

In addition, the link you provided to the legislation, it seemed pretty reasonable to me.

What's wrong with horse meat? It's pretty tasty, and leaner than beef.

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by classicman

Lemme think this thru a sec.
Currently animals are YOUR property. YOU are upset that because of this the gov't is proposing to tax you or whatever as a breeder. This organization is promoting an end to animal ownership. The gov't won't be able to tax you since you no longer legally own them.
Why aren't you supporting this?

None of this legislation in my state directly affects me I don't breed enough dogs. The whole point is that a minority with money wants a meatless, pet less society and people like you are going to bend over and grab your ankles while they are doing it.

[classicman]

Oh thanks for the insult - I appreciate that.