Apathetic Australians?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Yes but why the comment about the UN? What's that got to do with it? I don't get why you'd think KRudd would be suggesting we hand over regulatory powers to the UN.

What he's calling for are tighter restrictions on the free market economy that we've been operating under over the last 30 years in order to try and stop banks from collapsing in the future, to name just one major issue connected to this situation.

The UN is one of the greatest supporters of global free market economies. It was a flippant remark drawing a comparison.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Rudd's out of his mind. The market is presently performing that correction, and will manage it if political power doesn't fuck with the market's workings.

There will be a considerable flurry in Washington and among other capitals, which certain pols will spin as "a/the solution." I'll remain skeptical, thanks. The "Economic Stimulus and Recovery" bill is being shredded by the minority party and sundry commentators as not a reconstruction, but a spending bill with every major Democratic-Party wishlist item featured, and its capacity to do any recovery or stimulus at all is being called extensively into question. There had been talk of applying it to the financial sector and to national infrastructure such as upgrading and repairing transportation; this is no longer heard. Huh?

[Aliantha]

Australia had a stimulus package for lower income earners before Christmas. It's done nothing to save our economy.

They're now talking about tax cuts and what would be the best solution that way. One of the best ideas put forward so far IMO is to reduce or even remove the GST which has been the bain of small business for many many years now.

I think what Rudd is talking about are banking regulations (among other things) which so far seem to have kept our banks from collapsing here in comparison to those of other countries with lower or less regulations which has allowed them to trade with insufficient safeguards on loans etc. I'm sure our system here is not perfect, but so far it's doing ok and although we still have had a larger number of foreclosures than usual, these bad debts are currently being absorbed much more easily.

[TheMercenary]

It is not only about banking. The idea that Obama stated in a recent speech to, "Buy American", which I am not sure we can really do with most goods due to the volume we import, has raised the hackles of many of those around the world. That combined with bailout funds and other pork barrel spending for votes in respective states in Pelosi's bill has made the rest of the world sit up and notice, and they are worried about protectionist practices.

This was a pretty good article about the whole issue:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/...bal-420859.php

[Aliantha]

I think most governments are employing 'protectionist practices'. After all, they're meant to protect the people as best they can whether it be from physical attacks or otherwise. In this case it's economic. I've not noticed any comments in the media or in parliament denegrating the US for doing what they can to help its people.

I think it'd be strange if the US government was more concerned about what the rest of the world thought.

FWIW, banking regulation was just an example. Obviously there are other issues.

[classicman]

Oh Ali - the Us has been getting slammed for its "protectionist policies" all week. Many world leaders are concerned about this.

[Aliantha]

Well, none of that has hit the Australian mainstream media. Maybe next week. We're a bit slow here.

But even so, I'd stand behind my point anyway. It's the governments job to care for it's own citizens first. I'd expect it of my own government, and so should the citizens of the US in my opinion.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Well, none of that has hit the Australian mainstream media. Maybe next week. We're a bit slow here.

But even so, I'd stand behind my point anyway. It's the governments job to care for it's own citizens first. I'd expect it of my own government, and so should the citizens of the US in my opinion.

I so totally agree, I say fuck the rest of the world, close the borders, cut off all aid for 5 years, and lets just see where we stand.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

But even so, I'd stand behind my point anyway. It's the governments job to care for it's own citizens first. I'd expect it of my own government, and so should the citizens of the US in my opinion.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I so totally agree, I say fuck the rest of the world, close the borders, cut off all aid for 5 years, and lets just see where we stand.

But this is a situation where the solution is to be found through cooperation, not selfishness. Yes, each government should care for its own citizens first, but the best way to do that is to make sure the world economy doesn't crash. Keep your trading partners healthy. "Beggar thy neighbour" policies will just mean that it will be longer before they can afford your exports again. So-called "protectionism" will hurt trade and cause more economic contraction.

Mind you, I am not convinced that these bail-out/stimulus packages will be very effective. They will have the best chance if all countries bring their stimuls packages online at around the same time. This will take trust and international cooperation. These commodities being in short supply, I have doubts.

My general point is the same one I make against strong libertarianism. Yes, each person can reasonably put their own interests first, but very often the best way to advance your own interest is to form a cooperative alliance. Selfish individualism, or selfish nationalism, is sometimes the best way to advance your interests, but often not.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

My general point is the same one I make against strong libertarianism. Yes, each person can reasonably put their own interests first, but very often the best way to advance your own interest is to form a cooperative alliance. Selfish individualism, or selfish nationalism, is sometimes the best way to advance your interests, but often not.

I can't disagree with this statement. But since we are in such dire straights, as is the rest of the world, there is nothing wrong with looking hard at where we throw excess funds for little gain and keeping more of it at home. Face it, there are a lot of countries that hate our guts but yet we send them millions, in some cases billions, and all we do is get beat up over it. It is about time to call in some of those cards, and redirect to those who want to give us a hand. The recent events in Kyrgyzstan come to mind. I say let's look around the neighborhood, find someone who wants to give us a hand and close the damm base immediately. Surprise! Kiss our ass. I am tired of it. They can't have it both ways.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...se-afghanistan

[classicman]

I agree.

[classicman]

You joining radar and I merc? Is there room for him in the bunker?

[TheMercenary]

Sorry bro, Radar will never be in my bunker.

[classicman]

but you said ...... "I say fuck the rest of the world, close the borders, cut off all aid for 5 years, and lets just see where we stand."

[Aliantha]

Radar says open all the borders. I think that's the key difference...among many others.