Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week

[lookout123]

maybe if i (and my neighbors)didn't send them out with explosives on them i wouldn't have to worry about snipers.

[DanaC]

Suicide bombing is a relatively new phenomenon. I do believe it is a response to the brutalising effects of occupation. And the effects are brutal.

[lookout123]

it's not a response. it is a choice. a response is when the doctor hits your knee with a hammer and your leg bounces. A causes B. I'm pretty sure that no man, woman, or child has every woken up and thought "this occuption sucks" and spontaneously exploded.

I'm not suggesting that the situation is anything less than shit, but blowing yourself and non-combatants up is not a response to anything other than a persons fucked up allegiance to a misguided notion.

[Aliantha]

I'm pretty sure that no man, woman, or child has every woken up and thought "this occuption sucks" and spontaneously exploded

My brain did. You can see evidence of it all over this message board.

[piercehawkeye45]

They were living there for 2,000 fucking years. It wasn't like the people living in Palestine moved in in 70 AD, the were living there before that too. The Jews moved out when the temple was destroyed by the Romans.

No one is given a piece of land. The Israelis don't deserve Israel and the Palestinians don't deserve Palestine. I don't have a problem with anyone living in Palestine, it is just when you kick people out, then that is totally different.

[DanaC]

I'm not suggesting that the situation is anything less than shit, but blowing yourself and non-combatants up is not a response to anything other than a persons fucked up allegiance to a misguided notion.

I understand that Lookout. However, if you and your people are facing the world's fourth military superpower and you are restricted in your movements within your own country, you've seen your family members brutalised and humiliated and your grandfather still has a set of keys for the house your family were forced to abandon..you may look to see what you can do. David has become Goliath and the palestinian has discovered an altogether larger sling.

When we devasted Baghdad with Shock and Awe, we killed non combatants. That may not have been our ultimate goal, but it was something our military and politicians were unconcerned about. When Israel sends rockets into a crowded market place, or destroys a house which has been divided up into flats, one of which contains a suspected 'terrorist', they kill non-combatants. This is not a concern to them.

One side in that conflict is imprisoning the other. There is little to no freedom of movement for Palestinians. They are divided from their farms, their workplaces, hospitals, schools...checkpoints are a random and violent affair if you are a Palestinian civilian. Israel can do this because they are a wealthy and militarily powerful. Palestinians have very little to compare with Israel's arsenal.

Strapping on a bomb and targetting civilians is terrorism...in that it creates terror. But all those who have fought with violence against occupation have been considered terrorists at one time or another. The French resistance were considered terrorists by many. The ANC was considered a terrorist group.

Palestinians are creating fear and dismay amongst the ordinary people of Israel, because it's the only way they have to fight back. The Israelis meanwhile are creating terror amongst the ordinary people of Palestine, because they think to terrorise them into submission.

The world is horrified at someone strapping a bomb to themselves and blowing up a schoolbus, but they are not horrified at the death and suffering inflicted on ordinary Palestinians, many of them children, by Israeli terror tactics.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I understand that Lookout. However, if you and your people are facing the world's fourth military superpower and you are restricted in your movements within your own country, you've seen your family members brutalised and humiliated and your grandfather still has a set of keys for the house your family were forced to abandon..you may look to see what you can do. David has become Goliath and the palestinian has discovered an altogether larger sling.

When we devasted Baghdad with Shock and Awe, we killed non combatants. That may not have been our ultimate goal, but it was something our military and politicians were unconcerned about. When Israel sends rockets into a crowded market place, or destroys a house which has been divided up into flats, one of which contains a suspected 'terrorist', they kill non-combatants. This is not a concern to them.

One side in that conflict is imprisoning the other. There is little to no freedom of movement for Palestinians. They are divided from their farms, their workplaces, hospitals, schools...checkpoints are a random and violent affair if you are a Palestinian civilian. Israel can do this because they are a wealthy and militarily powerful. Palestinians have very little to compare with Israel's arsenal.

Strapping on a bomb and targetting civilians is terrorism...in that it creates terror. But all those who have fought with violence against occupation have been considered terrorists at one time or another. The French resistance were considered terrorists by many. The ANC was considered a terrorist group.

Palestinians are creating fear and dismay amongst the ordinary people of Israel, because it's the only way they have to fight back. The Israelis meanwhile are creating terror amongst the ordinary people of Palestine, because they think to terrorise them into submission.

The world is horrified at someone strapping a bomb to themselves and blowing up a schoolbus, but they are not horrified at the death and suffering inflicted on ordinary Palestinians, many of them children, by Israeli terror tactics.

There is no "occupation". The so-called Palestinian people owned zero land until they were given some at the same time as Israel. The keys those people hold belong to houses build on land they never owned. They were never wronged. Any killing they do, especially when blowing up women and children genuinely IS terrorism and has no legitimate justification.

The world is rightly horrified at seeing children taught to hate Jews more than they love to live. The world should not be horrified at the death and suffering of the so-called Palestinian people because they have brought it upon themselves through their constant attacks and murder. The so-called Palestinians are NOT oppressed or caused to suffer at the hands of Israel.

None of the so-called Palestinians have fought against an Israeli occupation because there is no Israeli occupation for them to fight. They merely want to kill Jews and don't recognize their right to live on the land they have HONESTLY acquired.

Israel doesn't practice terrorism or apartheid. Israel doesn't initiate violence, it only uses violence in its defense. Israel is kind, generous, and peace-loving and isn't interested in conquest and its 6 decades of offering concessions, food, shelter, clothing, etc. to the people who constantly attack them prove this fact.

[DanaC]

From the Independant:

Names of children under the age of 18 killed during the operations mounted by the Israeli military in Gaza since 25 June, according to the Palestinian Centre of Human Rights

Bara Nasser Habib, 3 (hit by shrapnel to the head and body, Gaza City, 26 July)
Shahed Saleh Al-Sheikh Eid, 3 days old (bled to death after airstrike, Al-Shouka, 4 August)
Rajaa Salam Abu Shaban, 3 (died of fractured skull in air raid, Gaza City, 9 August)
Jihad Selmi Abu Snaima, 14 (killed by a shell, Al-Shoukha, 10 september)
Khaled Nidal Wahba, 15 months (died of wounds from an airstrike, 10 July)
Rawan Farid Hajjaj, 6 (killed with his mother and sister in an airstrike, Gaza City, 8 July)
Anwar Ismail Abdul Ghani Atallah, 12 (shot in the head, Erez, 5 July)
Shadi Yousef Omar 16 (shot in the chest by IDF, Beit Lahya, 7 July)
Mahfouth Farid Nuseir, 16 (killed by missile while playing football, Beit Hanoun, 11 July)
Ahmad Ghalib Abu Amsha, 16, (killed by missile while playing football, Beit Hanoun, 11 July)
Ahmad Fathi Shabat, 16 (killed by missile while playing football, Beit Hanoun, 11 July)
Walid Mahmoud El-Zeinati, 12 (died of shrapnel wounds, Gaza City, 11 July)
Basma Salmeya, 16 (killed in Israeli airstrike, 12 July, Jabalia)
Somaya Salmeya, 17 (killed in Israeli airstrike, 12 July, Jabalia)
Aya Salmeya, 9 (killed in Israeli airstrike, Jabalia, 12 July)
Yehya Salmeya, 10 (killed in Israeli airstrike, Jabalia, 12 July)
Nasr Salmeya, 7 (killed in Israeli airstrike, Jabalia, 12 July)
Huda Salmeya, 13 (killed in Israeli airstrike, Jabalia, 12 July)
Eman Salmeya, 12 (killed in Israeli airstrike, Jabalia, 12 July)
Raji Omar Jaber Daifallah, 16 (died of shrapnel wounds from missile, Gaza City, 13 July)
Ali Kamel Al-Najjar, 16 (killed by Israeli tank shell, Al-Maghazi refugee camp, 19 July)
Ahmed Ali Al-Na'ami, 16 (killed by Israeli tank shell, Al-Maghazi refugee camp, 19 July)
Ahmed Rawhi Abu Abdu, 14 (killed by drone missile, Al Nusairat refugee camp, 19 July)
Mohammed 'awad Muhra, 14 (killed by Israeli bullet to the chest, Al-Maghazi refugee camp, 20 July)
Fadwa Faisal Al-'arrouqi, 13 (died from shrapnel wounds, Gaza City, 20 July)
Saleh Ibrahim Nasser, 14 (killed by artillery fire, Beit Hanoun, 24 July)
Khitam Mohammed Rebhi Tayeh, 11 (killed by artillery fire, Beit Hanoun, 24 July)
Ashraf 'abdullah 'awad Abu Zaher, 14 (shot in the back, Khan Younis, 25 July)
Nahid Mohammed Fawzi Al-Shanbari, 16 (killed by artillery fire, Beit Hanoun, 31 July)
'aaref Ahmed Abu Qaida, 14 (killed by artillery fire, Beit Hanoun, 1 August)
Anis Salem Abu Awad, 12 (killed by airstike, Al-Shouka, 2 August)
Ammar Rajaa Al-Natour, 17 (killed by drone missile, Al Shouka, 5 August)
Kifah Rajaa Al-Natour, 15 (killed by drone missile, Al Shouka, 5 August)
Ibrahim Suleiman Al-Rumailat, 13 (killed by drone missile, Al Shouka, 5 August)
Ahmed Yousef 'abed 'aashour, 13 (killed by missile fire, Beit Hanoun, 14 August)
Mohammed 'abdullah Al-Ziq, 14 (killed by drone missile, Gaza City, 29 August)
Nidal 'abdul 'aziz Al-Dahdouh, 14 (killed by rifle fire, Gaza City, 30 August)
Jihad Selmi Abu Snaima, 14 (killed by artillery fire, Rafah, 10 September)

[Radar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Names of children under the age of 18 killed during the operations mounted by the Israeli military in Gaza since 25 June, according to the Palestinian Centre of Human Rights

Each and every one of those kids died because so-called Palestinian people blew up Jewish men and women and planned attacks against Israel. These people hid among women and children so when Israel retaliated, these women and children would die. In other words, they were killed by the actions of their own people, not Israel.

Every one of those deaths rests squarely on the shoulders of those who attack Israeli Jews. When will those people learn that when you mess with the bull, you get the horns? When will they put the lives of their own women and children above their own desire to murder Jews?

[DanaC]

From B'Tselem (The Israeli Information Centre for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories):

8 March 07: Israeli soldiers use two Palestinian minors as human shields

Testimonies taken by B'Tselem reveal that during the army's operation in Nablus in late February, soldiers used two Palestinian children, a fifteen-year-old boy and a eleven-year-old girl, and a twenty-four-year old man as human shields. The use of human shields constitutes a flagrant breach of international humanitarian law and is explicitly and clearly prohibited by Israeli military orders. B'Tselem wrote to the Judge Advocate General and demanded that he immediately order a Military Police investigation into the matter.

The military operation, which was given the name "Hot Winter," began on 25 February, and was intended "to undermine the terror infrastructure" in Nablus , in part by arresting wanted persons and destroying explosives laboratories. The army imposed a complete curfew for more than two consecutive days on the Old City (the Casbah), in which tens of thousands of Palestinians live. One person, who went up to his roof during the curfew, was shot and killed by soldiers, and his son was wounded.

According to the testimonies, on the first day of the operation, around five o'clock in the morning, soldiers came to the house of the 'Amirah family, in the Old City , and removed all the occupants from the house and took them to a nearby house, where other Palestinians were also being held. Then the soldiers ordered one of the family, 15-year old 'Amid to accompany them in their search of three other houses. According to 'Amid's testimony, the soldiers pushed him with the barrels of their rifles and forced him to enter rooms of the house in front of them, open cabinets and empty out the contents, and open windows. In one instance, according to the testimony, a soldier shot several shots into the room.

Other soldiers took 'Amid's cousin, Samah 'Amirah, 24, and used him as a human shield in a similar fashion. Part of this incident was recorded on by AP television cameras and broadcast both on Israeli television and abroad. 'Amirah was forced to enter every room in his house, while soldiers followed him. Afterwards a soldier would shoot a round of bullets into each room.
In another incident, which took place on the morning of 28 February, also in the Old City , soldiers took control of the Dadush family house and locked the six members of the family in one room of the house. Throughout the day, soldiers interrogated all of the members of the family about the location of armed Palestinians who fired at soldiers in the area during the operation. Around eight o'clock at night, soldiers forced eleven-year old Jihan Dadush to lead them twice to one of the adjacent houses that she had mentioned to the soldiers in response to their questions. The second time, when they arrived at the house, the soldiers forced her to open the door and enter in front of them. After combing the inside of the house, the soldiers returned her to her house. In her testimony to B'Tselem, Jihan said that after the soldiers left, "I was shaking with fear. I was afraid they would kill me or put me in jail. The only thing I wanted to do was sleep… I am afraid that the soldiers will come back and take me."

B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.

The artcile can be accessed here http://www.btselem.org/english/About_BTselem/Index.asp

There are other sides to the story. We are so used to taking our news from that region from the mouths of Israeli Generals and Ministers, we have forgotten that the Palestinians suffer.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

From B'Tselem (The Israeli Information Centre for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories):







The artcile can be accessed here http://www.btselem.org/english/About_BTselem/Index.asp

There are other sides to the story. We are so used to taking our news from that region from the mouths of Israeli Generals and Ministers, we have forgotten that the Palestinians suffer.

Yes, let's blame the people who used the so-called Palestinian people as human shields, and not the murderers who made them need a shield in the first place.

[Aliantha]

How?

[Aliantha]

I still want to know how chinese people can predate china.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I still want to know how chinese people can predate china.

There were people in America, before there was a U.S.A. There were people in China before there was a nation of China. The Chinese people were still Chinese before there was a China, and the people in America were Americans before we started using the term "Americans" to describe them. It's the same people regardless of what you call them.

Jews have ALWAYS lived in Israel even after the temple was destroyed. There has never been a single day during the last 3,000 years when Jewish people didn't live in Israel.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by Radar

There were people in America, before there was a U.S.A. There were people in China before there was a nation of China. The Chinese people were still Chinese before there was a China, and the people in America were Americans before we started using the term "Americans" to describe them. It's the same people regardless of what you call them.

Jews have ALWAYS lived in Israel even after the temple was destroyed. There has never been a single day during the last 3,000 years when Jewish people didn't live in Israel.

You are wrong, Radar.

Before there was a china, there were Han people and Qin people and Sichuan people and Canton people and Hakka people.
Qin Shi Huang Di conquered and united all of what we currently know as china. He personally created the chinese language, from his own Qin language, and standardized a method of writing across all of his empire. The people still continued to speak their own languages, but were forced to learn and write what we now know as chinese. The people still continued to be Han people and Qin people and Hakka people, and many still do to this day, while others have in the intervening centuries grown to identify as chinese.

You are definitely wrong in this case, radar. Maybe a different example would be more apt. They were not chinese on the virtue that they happened to live in what later eventually became china, they were not chinese by virtue of their ethnicity, they were not chinese by virtue of their language, they were not chines by virtue of their identity. They were not chinese.