Why do we hate the french again?

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by bargalunan

I'm lost in this forum

Sorry my english is not fluent but you won't have to bear my awful accent.
As soon as I read all your messages about french people I will answer you.

It's quite interesting to see the opposite opinion despite they are not always very kind for us.
For instance I've recently met russians people, the "old communists opponents" and the main thing I've listened is that we're all victime of our medias and schoolbooks (our intellectual laziness too !) that distort the truth.

Later
Bye

Don't go away! Stay and let us know how cool you are! We had a French person at the cellar a bit ago and he/she didn't do anything but insult American food...so, that didn't do any good! Hang around! Enlighten us!

[bargalunan]

Thank you Brianna

I’ve just read the 2 first pages.
First excuse me if my words exceed my thought.
It's not always easy to find all the shades I'd like to.

wolf :

Freedom Fries thing is laughable : OK it's true they are belgian
And I don't think freedom is a matter of choice among different fries !
if politics go on like this, it will be our last freedom.
coca or pepsi, shell or esso, nike or addidas... that's a pity.
(in their history US have already boycotted Francfort sausages which are german !)

lookout123 :
“I always thought the french were our pals until I did some work with their military and spent some time in their embassy. *ahem* fuck the frogs.”
Don’t mistake French people and military or embassy. Those are too often professional of betrayal. It’s the same for every country : France, China, GB, Germany, South Africa and of course US. Just look at history where alliances have been decided and so often not respected.
I want to add that our high school system produces a lot of inflated students, (I was one of them) and you may have met them in such a professional sphere. I imagine it’s the same with Yale and the “Skull and bones” and all US people are not like Yale’s students.
Furthermore I think we meet people who “resonate” like us wherever they come from.

Brianna

“They also pour sauce over everything and pronounce it delicious”
We say the same about English people !

Griff
“We hate them because they feel as strongly about France as we do about the good ole USA”
I don’t understand ole, but I think I agree

Richlevy
“Basically because they can be as arrogant, nationalistic, and self-centered as we are, without the military and economic arsenal to back it up.”
OK

Guyute

“Maybe because they have a knack for having someone pulling their irons out of the fire after being steamrolled, then acting like they would have done it anyway if they had a bit more time (De Gaulle was a puke like this), and then being to proud to admit that they were fucked if the good guys didn't help.” I imagine it’s “too” proud
De Gaulle : see Marichiko’s message

Radar

“they have a history of surrendering their country and being ingrateful when their bacon is saved by the United States”

In France we really really thank US soldiers who have poor their own blood, but not US government.
We think they could have interfere before, but they have waited Europe was destroyed enough to be sure to become the economical and political leader after the war. Furthermore Soviet Union was the new competitor that required to be stopped.
So France freedom itself was just a detail, it’s the reason Allied decided not to free Paris but to run to Berlin before Russians.

After the war the “president” Franco, dictator of Spain, has kept the power in his country despite he helped Hitler in sending spanish troops. Is it a manner to bring liberty in a country ?
Look on the net for information on Gladio, Stay behind, Paper Clip… thanks to this operations, the US put pro-US governments in Europe against European interests and recruited nazis scientists.
The Marshall plan helped Europe to rebuilt war damages but it wasn’t free, there was financial interests to refund after.
Governements are not humane, they don’t care about French, African, US people. They just believe in oil and money. Don’t listen to what they say, just look at their actions.
To be clear and frank I don’t trust states, governments, army, big firm, flags and medals, whatever they are : french, US or kenian…

Radar

“For me it's not so much the French I dislike, but Parisians.”
In France we say we must be crazy to live in Paris. It’s lovely in summer to visit as a tourist but not during the other seasons, it’s overcrowded with cars everywhere.

My town Nantes during a festival :
http://cellar.org/iotd.php?threadid=8792
http://www.nantes.fr/ext/royal_de_lu...5/vendredi.asp
http://www.lean.to/gallery/royaldeluxe

“Because the Parisians shower infrequently, the women have hairy armpits”
Have you already been to Paris to verify that ? We say the same about Portugueses.
As for us US people are all fat like Mickael Moore. It’s so silly.


Marichiko

Thank you for your intervention

Jaguar : Hello

xoxoxoBruce :

“that's when the french took charge again and sowed the seeds of WW II.”
Yes with Clémenceau in Versailles Treaty 28 06 1919.
But you forget
- another French, George Mandel. Mandel, birth name : Jerobeam Rothschild
- Colonel Edward M. House and Bernard Baruch important employees of the Rothschild Bank.
- David Lloyd George prime minister of Great-Britain with his counsellor, Sir Philip Sassoon, “descendant in line” (translation OK ?) of Amschel Rothschild.
- Vittorio Emanuele Orlando minister-president of Italia.
- The last but not the least : Thomas Woodrow Wilson, president for the United States .
(You can notice the influence of bank Rotschild)

It’s always the same principle : states wants to divide, weaken and exploit their opponents : German secret service and banks propped up Lenine against tsar Nicolas 2 before the revolution of 1917 to weaken Russia.
Poland had always been a puppet between the interests of Germany, Russian and France, in order to protect all of them from each other.
US has won the cold war and divides URSS in several republics, and prop pro-US governments up in order to lead pipelines towards US tankers too. Iouchenko, the nice pro occidental Ukrainian president is fascist, so was his pro-Russian opponent. (A friend of mine is Ukrainian)
England, US, France (less now because of US influence), exploit African countries. Now US take the main role in Asia (except China ?). And I don’t talk about Arabian countries exploited from the beginning of 20th century by the “7 sisters” (US, English, French, Dutch petrol companies)

All those states have dirty hands !

If I was US I’d try to find information about “the Virginia company” because thanks to it, the Britain Crown could always be the owner of United States. It’s an economical power instead of a political domination which is too evident. Is it true ?


“Were we ready for a major land war? (in 1940) No. The government was still trying to figure out how to convince the public that wanted to stay out of it. Gee, maybe Pearl Harbor was part of that.“
OK for me


That’s all for today

Bye / A bientôt

[lookout123]

thanks for your response and welcome to the cellar.

it may be hard for you to understand but i seriously doubt that anyone in here really truly hates all french people. conversations like this are started more for humor, and then turn into friendly and not-so-friendly nose tweaking.

we can say that we dislike or hate a group of people, but then when you actually meet one on an individual basis you may find you like them. do i really hate the french? no not really. they are just people. i have no respect for the french military. i have no respect for the diplomats and foreign service workers that i met in the embassies. i believe that the french government parades and preens in the world of international politics without realizing that it has been some time since France was truly and international powerhouse. but there are a number of French people that i know and like. people are just people. some i like, some i dislike. nationality doesn't really matter. for instance, RichLevy is a cellarite that i disagree with on most every issue, but i'm willing to bet that he is a helluva nice guy that i'd enjoy conversing with. BUT when you have a group of people with RichLevy's views, it is easy to say "i don't like them", etc. it is the difference between group and person to person dynamics.

---
and if you really think that the US waited to enter WWII until Europe was in a shambles so that we could step in take center stage in the world then i can understand why you might distrust and dislike America. unfortunately, that would be a misunderstanding of American sentiment and politics leading up to that time period.

Welcome to the Cellar, Bargalunan. I am sorry that you would drop in here and read this thread. A Frenchman might well use it as an example of "Why do we hate the Americans?" I hope you'll come back, anyhow. Its interesting to get the perspective of people from other countries.

By the way, I bet most people here would not be able to write French or any other language well enough to comment on a written discussion in a foreign language. Of course, we Americans are sooooo superior!

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by marichiko

Of course, we Americans are sooooo superior!

Only you.

Originally Posted by Brianna

Only you.

Hey, thank you for recognizing my wonderfulness at last! Je suis adorable, est-ce que je ne suis pas ?

[mrnoodle]

I like 4 of em: one ex-coworker, one kid I played Rogue Spear with, his friend who he introduced me to in a chatroom (who I've spoken with maybe 3 times -- she doesn't know any English, and my French is nearly as bad), and a guy who used to come into the bait shop I worked at. They liked me okay, too.

I also harbor no ill will towards any of their mothers, which gets me up to 8. I don't know how many fathers they had so I can't add them yet.

[capnhowdy]

Other than the stupid looking Foreign Legion uniforms and that nasty tasting Kraft salad dressing, I say....what the hell.
Welome to the cellar, bargalunan.
Always remember... controversies "R" us.
And BTW did you guys really invent the French tickler? heehee.......

[BigV]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Why do you think he/she is a minor?

Arithmetic

[xoxoxoBruce]

OK...fashion thread.

[bargalunan]

Bonjour comment ça va ?
Thank you for your welcome, I will repeat in France that all US people are not bad !
There’s no problem really, if I was on my nerves, I wouldn’t have written a so long message.

How can you kill a French person ?
Shoot above his head, in his complex of superiority

How can you easily make money ?
Buy a French for his real price, and sell him for the price he thinks he worth

A lot of political decisions upset me (French, English, of course US because they rule the world...) So did Rome, France, England before.
I just think that things will change thanks to simple people and not from the head of states.
In France we talk about "the hundredth monkey".

I've really got nothing against US people (as you said lookout123).
If you just could calm down mac donalds, coca cola, Lance Armstrong and Paris Hilton.... :p
How could I be angry with US people when you give birth to Clint Eastwood (Million Dollar Baby and Unforgiven are two of my favorite films ! )

Ten years ago, the US image in France was not so bad : sometimes very good, good or sometimes irritating. But now because of G and GW Bush, the “Falcons” (or “Hawks” ?), Colin Powell and the Gulf war, French people less and less trust American politic.
And we were really disappointed when GW Bush was reelected. We think he’s crazy, idiot and dangerous.

Be sure that French TV not always criticize US politic, they are sleeping. They rather criticize Mickael Jackson’s nose or Janett’s nipple.
But they detailed the reason why Chirac didn’t want to help Bush :
- ONU had never received any evidence that Saddam Hussein was hiding High Destruction Weapons. (Colin Powell has lied in showing a test tube, we’re still waiting for his report)
- There is still no proof of link between Saddam Hussein and Ben Laden.
- so what’s the purpose to invade Irak ?

A French joke :
Why was GW Bush sure that Saddam owned High Destruction Weapons ?
Because he has kept the receipt !
(French and German sold weapons to Irak too, we’re not better)

US army bombs Irak and Halliburton rebuilts the building.
Dick Cheney is the former President of Halliburton (and KBR (private army). For us it’s as crazy as if Ben Ladden Corporation (firm of Oussama BL’s father) had rebuilt the Twin Towers. (I repeat in France we say there’s still no link between Irak and Ben Laden)

It’s my opinion from France. Bush’s government isn’t clear. France, Germany, Spain, China… acted like this before.

In France we foresee war against Iran at end of August / beginning September.
I hope we’re wrong.


lookout123 :
I’ve read again my notes about WWII (written by Russian historian Valentin Faline.)
Usually history is written by the winner !
He said that the war could have finished since 1942 if Churchill and US leaders who agreed with him (FD Roosevelt, Cordel Hull) had agreed to open a new front line that
Beaverbrook and Cripps in British army, and Eisenhower among other leaders were thinking it was possible.
But in fact Anglo Saxon wanted to replace Nazi’s domination over Europe, but they need to weaken Russia. Thus they let Germany and Russian fight against each-other. Churchill wanted also to control petrol in Caucase and Middle Asia. It’s the following of war of Crimée (1854/1856) (west Russia) between Russian on one side, and British allied with French.
After the battle of Koursk, in 1943, Anglo Saxon (Churchill, Roosevelt) even thought to allied with Nazi army to fight against Soviets. (Remember Franco in my last post).
May be those are the reasons why De Gaulle didn’t trust Anglo Saxon politicians.
Economical domination is an argument we often read in France (not in our schoolbooks, it’s too complex !).

Links :
http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/article16696.html (sorry it’s only in French and Spanish)
Item in English about US influence (it’s critical) :
http://www.voltairenetwork.net/article156.html (U.S. ruling class’ bargains with the Reich)
http://www.voltairenetwork.net/article91.html (Psychological Cold War)
http://www.voltairenetwork.net/article39.html (Ford Foundation)
http://www.voltairenetwork.net/article109.html (Skull and bones)

That’s part of my informations. There’s no problem for me if you tell me it’s false.
I’ve read a book I think it’s excellent :
“A People’s History of the United States. 1492 – Present”
written by Howard Zinn, teacher in Boston University

Another French example about WWII : Russia betrayed some French communists (!) (pro Russians) members of the Resistance movement and denounced them to Nazis, because those French people could have helped US troops to arrive the firsts in Berlin !!

So who killed JFK ?
It’s not De Gaulle !
Can you help me ?

In all your posts you often talk about Pershing. In France history his name may take one line. (except for missiles)

Brianna :
"My house was built on an ancient Indian burial ground. It was the site of Satanic rituals, witch-burnings and five John Denver Christmas specials."
It may be strange, do you see ghosts ? play with energy, spirits ? A friend of mine is “talking” with souls to help them to do their last wishes before going to heaven.

Bye

[Trilby]

Hi again, bargalunan.

My little "signature" line about my house being built on ancient Indian burial ground, etc., is just a joke. Because I live in Ohio it is totally possible that I am on some sort of ancient Indian ground, I doubt that it is a burial ground because if it were it would probably be some State sanctioned park or something. The joke is that all those terrible things happened on the site--the Satanic rituals, the witch-burnings, but the most HORRIBLE things were the Five John Denver Christmas Specials...see? Just a joke!

I thought your last response/post was very good, barga. Well thought out, well informed. We need a French voice here in the Cellar! I hope you stay and have fun with us!

[mrnoodle]

Interesting coincidence. I'm housesitting for some friends, who also offered their basement rooms to our church's new pastor and family (big house). The pastor's previous gig was in France, so they're all fluent. The 2 boys have a flawless accent, at least to my untrained ears.

Once again... My pastor is temporarily living under the same roof as me. And his lovely wife and precious kids are completely enamored with France and French culture.

Dad was gone, so mom, the kids, and I played pool and talked in French. I was terrified that I would swear accidentally when I missed a shot, but otherwise, I ended the evening feeling quite magnanimous and warm/fuzzy about the world. And also like a hypocrite. Something about spending the day dissing people, then having a grand old time with them in the evening.

[lookout123]

He said that the war could have finished since 1942 if Churchill and US leaders who agreed with him (FD Roosevelt, Cordel Hull) had agreed to open a new front line that

it is quite possible, but you must remember that America was just breaking out of its isolationist past, unwillingingly at that. then when you look at american strategic thought at the time it looks a little less heinous than what this author suggests. there were concerns that our green, unbloodied young men would be slaughtered if they weren't FULLY trained - and everyone's definition for that is different. there were many different proposals for ops plans, but in the end it was decided that the best course of action was to wait until the US had trained and equipped (haha) an overwhelming number of GI's to send over to the theater. keep in mind that americans were not interested in any sort of negotiated peace so the goal wasn't to fight until a position of strength was achieved and then pause. the goal was to overwhelm and crush the opposition.

[bargalunan]

John Denver is unknown in France (at least for me)

Perhaps is less sexy than Britney Spear