Election 2012

[Lamplighter]

All politicians in Texas run on the slogan: "I'm more conservative than he is."

UT - The only bastion of liberals (?) in Texas, and
the only song the band plays is "The Eyes of Texas"

[classicman]

Sorry I got here late. I'll take option C - What Clod said.
I'm rather certain she did NOT mean the voters.

[Lamplighter]

I'm uncertain what it takes to makes Classic "certain"

But here is the ABC interview... her remark comes at 2:08 min... judge for yourself.

But listen to what else she says in the interview
... making more tax returns public would just lead to more questions and/or attacks...
Then she's back to broad generalities.

But what is the specific plan that Mitt Romney has that will
create all those jobs this country needs so much faster than Obama?

[classicman]

She *may* have been intending the grammar of her sentence to refer to the reporter
she was having a conversation with.

It is very clear to me that is exactly the case. In fact, just before that:

Mrs. Romney: "When he was Governor of Massachusetts - didn't take a salary for four years."

Reporter: "Why not show that then?"

Mrs. Romney: “And you just want to give more material for more attack. And that’s really -
that’s just the answer.”

Who was the word "you referring to in this instance? To the interviewer(representing the media.)
Same as a few seconds later when the "you people" comment was made.

I stand by my impression. Would I prefer he made his tax returns public? Meh, why not.
I cannot say that has ever been an issue with which candidate I voted for though.
I think they will show he is a Billionaire at worst. They will however offer more fuel to the fire of the
"Out of touch rich guy mantra" which is a cornerstone of the Obama campaign.
The election should be about jobs & the economy, not how wealthy a candidate is or isn't and
certainly NOT about their tax returns. YMMV.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by classicman

snip--

"Out of touch rich guy mantra" which is a cornerstone of the Obama campaign.

The election should be about jobs & the economy, not how wealthy a candidate is or isn't and certainly NOT about their tax returns. YMMV.

Ok, let's talk about this point. Wealthy? Whatever. But he touts his wealth (I have friends who own NASCAR/Pro Football teams, only the two Cadillacs, let's wager $10,000, etc etc etc) as abundant and irrefutable evidence of his skill as a businessman. Ok, mad fucking skills, skyhighstacks of skillz, yo.

The thing is, our government isn't a business. It's very very different from business. The skills he has in business, I think some will apply, but lots will not and most especially his talent for making profit, the very reason for existence for a business.

What is profit in government? It's practically a non sequitur. The measures of success in business don't apply in government. The tools that work in business don't apply in government. I don't want my government run like a business.

Now before you pop a vessel straining to disagree with me, I know that there are actions and ideals contribute to success in both realms. But he doesn't talk about his ability to lead by inspiring those around him, he talks about how he loves to fire people. He's king of making profit. He's got lots of friends who are business owners. How will those qualities make him a good president?

He's been governor of Massachusetts. That is a real qualification. But he's *running from* that, sadly, especially because of the "albatross" of "RomneyCare". Really sad. Being President is hard. Practically no one has any experience at it, only presidents, eh? Other chief executives. I don't get any whiff of megalomania coming from Romney, thankfully. I think he's sincere. I just strongly disagree with is positions about the primacy of businesses.

I don't want my government run like a business. Done well, that would be a catastrophe.

[Lamplighter]

The election should be about jobs & the economy, not how wealthy a candidate is or isn't and
certainly NOT about their tax returns. YMMV.

OK, so please address the question:

But what is the specific plan that Mitt Romney has that will
create all those jobs this country needs so much faster than Obama?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by BigV

I don't want my government run like a business.

I know, but you have to realize that some people disagree with you.

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

But what is the specific plan that Mitt Romney has that will create all those jobs this country needs so much faster than Obama?

No idea. But I will say that having his taxes become the focus of the election will not help answer that question.

[DanaC]

How about focusing on whether or not he felt compelled to pay his fair share of tax? Whether or not he engaged in off-shore tax schemes. And whether or not the business he ran was creating jobs or removing them to low wage economies elsewhere.

[DanaC]

Daily Show was good on why the tax issue is important/relevant.

This is a bit of a dire vid, taken from someone's tv, but it's worth it. Turn the sound up. I think he pretty much nails why peopl get upset with Romney. It isn't 'because he's rich'.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by classicman

I know, but you have to realize that some people disagree with you.

--snip

I do realize some people disagree with me. Duh.

But no one will like the world that results from having a government that is run like a business. That would be a disaster. Look, our military is ... pick your superlative. Efficient. Disciplined. Honorable. Effective. Et cetera. But running our government like the military would be a different disaster. Just because it's an effective model doesn't make it a model that should be followed.

Our government isn't a business. We don't have the same inputs and outputs as business.

[BigV]

In business, the boss can do what he likes. Your time is his time. Your equipment is his equipment. Your information is his information. He can do what he wants, control what you do/say/see/hear when you're on the clock, wouldn't you agree? That has certainly been my experience. I doubt Boss Romney has deviated from this as Boss.

It's this kind of thinking that leads to remarks like this:

Romney said, "I want to make sure every new computer sold in this country, after I'm president, has installed on it a filter to block all pornography."

This is not acceptable as President. But he **thinks** it's acceptable as President. He says exactly that. Pandering? Campaigning? Bloviating? I don't care. Right now, all I have to judge him on are his past actions and words. These are clear words, repeated, not just uttered in... a moment of passion. I don't want a President that promises to decide what I can and can't see on my computer

[classicman]

More partisan Bullshit.
The concept was/is a filter available for parents to monitor what their children have
access to view on their computer. It was never intended to block all pron from adults.
Why is that idea not acceptable to you? What is wrong with offering an option for parents to selectively CHOOSE to use should they want to do so?

[BigV]

I'm opposed to the president vowing to "make sure that a filter is installed on every computer sold in America". Why? Why is this important for him to vow? Why is it important for him to make sure that... ... every computer? Really? All the ones used in business? Cause... of the children? Or the computers used in science applications? Or the computers purchased by the military? What about computers purchased by adults with no children? Why must those computers have a needless filter for non existent children?

You're right it is partisan bullshit, but controlling *conservative* bullshit.

[classicman]

@ Dana - I'd love to hear it, but even with all the sound on max, I wasn't able to follow it.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by classicman

@ Dana - I'd love to hear it, but even with all the sound on max, I wasn't able to follow it.

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?p=820736#post820736

listen to first half.

@dana

ironically, this was your post in the beginning. you didn't need to find the second clip of very low quality.

eta: well crap. vid is taken down.

further eta:

try this link for the full episode, the beginning part is the Bain Capital/Romney part. With acceptable audio.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-epi...012-louis-c-k-