08-25-2006, 09:10 AM | #91 | |
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What are they? What is that end state? Is it possible you don't really beleive in it either?
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08-25-2006, 09:51 AM | #92 | |
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I believe peace is possible, as much as it was possible in N-Irleand. Basically it all reverts to 1967.
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08-25-2006, 10:10 AM | #93 | |
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It was a causus belli then.
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"Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..." Last edited by MaggieL; 08-25-2006 at 10:13 AM. |
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08-25-2006, 02:49 PM | #94 | |||
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The official UN estimate was 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs (a number that included Christians, Bedouins, Druze, and others). Quote:
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People might compare your map with this one. This map is 1947, yours begins in 1948. The difference was a war, in which the side that started the war lost. People might notice how the orange areas coincide with the blue areas on your map. Does history begin in 1947? No it sure doesn't; nor in 1917, nor 1948, nor 1967. We can go back further to how the whole concept of colonization no longer worked in the 20th century, and how the world had to wreak havoc for a while to settle on what it is now, and how this is the last vestage of that old problem. But the best thing for all concerned would be if they would just sit down and shut the fuck up. All the land Israel has gained since the orange areas on that map are due to initially-defensive wars. The land Israel has gained has been the land from which they were attacked. If the Arabs would have sat down and shut up in 1947, they would have not only a state but a huge and great one. Instead they have been used, over and over again. |
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08-26-2006, 10:06 AM | #95 |
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Basically, the British screwed up in Israel and Kashmir by leaving things half-done. The UN had to finish up in Palestine. The India/Pakistan split worked out much better, and occurred a few months before the Palestine partition.
The Arab League had the chance to accept the partition at that time, and had the example of Pakistan, but decided to refuse.
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08-28-2006, 05:37 AM | #96 | ||||
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Whatever year is used, fact is that hundreds of thousands Palestines whos families lived there were ethnic cleansed, exiled, prisoned and live in reservates with no future, just for living here. Quote:
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08-28-2006, 05:50 AM | #97 |
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I think Hippikos gets his internet access at work. I wonder if he's paid for his propagandizing online? If so, I hope he's not paid for answering my last question, because he didn't.
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08-28-2006, 07:06 AM | #98 |
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ah...Maggie... mother of innuendo. As usual your response only adresses the messenger and not the message.
I have internet access both at work and at home and wished I got paid for my writings. Maybe you can make me an offer I can't refuse? As for your question; pls try to read my messages instead of only looking at it, your answer was responded to. Have a nice day!
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08-28-2006, 07:17 AM | #99 | |||
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The withdrawl from Gaza was unilateral in the more traditional sense of the term. Unilateral Israeli withdrawl? That REALLY doesn't match your worldview, so you can't even see it, can you? Quote:
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08-28-2006, 07:34 AM | #100 | ||
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"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68 "Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] 'They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.'" The New York Times, May 11, 1997. Israel has a legacy of provocations in order to excuse their expensionism. In Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt's personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: "[Israel] must see the sword as the main, if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may, no - it must - invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation-and-revenge...And above all - let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space." Quoted in Livia Rokach, "Israel's Sacred Terrorism." And not to forget the bombing of US Liberty in order to provocate US into war with Egypt. Quote:
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08-28-2006, 08:00 AM | #101 | |
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08-28-2006, 08:08 AM | #102 | ||
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08-28-2006, 08:13 AM | #103 | |
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Yes, the only way you can paint the 67 war as offensive is to cherry-pick quotes here and there.
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08-28-2006, 08:56 AM | #104 | ||
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08-28-2006, 10:08 AM | #105 | ||
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MaggieL; again, it all goes back to the 1967 borders. It has been stated by all parties concerned that these borders are acceptable to all. Which means peace in the area. But, I have to repeat myself in your case; that means concessions from Israel and we know that they don't negotiate, they impose actions unilaterally. Their "unilateral" withdrawal from Gaza (in which they're back again) was a well calculated strategy to increase their territory on the West Bank. 7000 settlers at the end were impossible to protect without collossal efforts and costs. Just a matter of cost and balances.
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