Fascists - Page 6

xoxoxoBruce · 07-22-2004, 06:36 PM

Purposebuilt or converted space in existing buildings? Maybe they were created out of sight/out of mind, to keep the neighbors from undue fear.

DanaC · 07-22-2004, 06:50 PM

"Purposebuilt or converted space in existing buildings? Maybe they were created out of sight/out of mind, to keep the neighbors from undue fear."

Not hundred percent sure yet but hoping to find out more ....from what the fella at the Council was saying it sounded awfully like they were purpose built

I have considered that maybe they are placed underground for "their own protection" so to speak, that is keeping then out of sight so as not to spark an anti asylum backlash at the people inside.....That explains wh they would keep it out of the press certainly but that doesnt explain why they would keep this away from the council. The Refugee Council has worked with the Home Office and NASS in the past to smooth over potentially incendiary situations. A recent example was when a group of refugees were due to come over from Sierra Leone and somewhere else ( escapes now where it was) on a special fast track system. In order to ensure the information could be out out in a positive way and in order to prevent any far right groups or the media jumping all over it and causing a lot of ill feeling the impending arrival of said refugees was kept a strict secret until they were in the country and then when the story was broken it was broken with a "feelgood" factor, pictures of smiling children with clean clothes telling the camera how thankful they are to the people of Britain for welcoming them contrasted with pitcures of the refugee camp they'd come from and in which many of the adults had spent a decade and children been born and raised....But it wasnt kept from the refugee council, instead the council and the home office worked together but maintained a silence on the issue outside of that.

It's generally the nature of the Home Office and NASS that they are obstructionist in most cases, helpful in some and incompetant in others.....This particular brand of secrecy seems a new thing. I dont believe they are being set apart to prevent upsetting the populace at large I thin they are being set aside so that they do not exist in people's minds and if they dont exist in people's minds then nobody will feel a need to protect them from the state

Catwoman · 07-26-2004, 08:11 AM

An unmitigated influx of unskilled, criminal and fundamentally 'un-useful' refugees who - regardless of their political or humanitarian plight at home - are resolutely barging through our borders - without asking?

It's downright rude. It's not because their skin colour doesn't fit, or even because they're not directly contributing. It's because their very presence means WE get less. Less money, less healthcare, more tax. We are working in our piss boring 9 to 5 head fucking jobs so that THEY can enjoy a stable reintroduction to society with a press pack and meal ticket to boot. I want MY tax to pay for MY benefits.

And before you liberals jump in with the predictable 'self-serving tax is an oxymoron'... oh. Actually, this is where my argument comes unstuck.

You see, that is the purpose of tax. The proportion of one's income is irrelevant. Tax was introduced because a society (esp. meritocratic) is inherently unequal. Tax exists to moderate that inequality and ensure people don't die because they can't eat.

High earners (and that includes anyone earning over £12,000/$19,000 - congratulations you are in the top 2% of the world's population) detest the fact that their hard-earned money should go some way to helping those who do not work for themselves.

But that underpins the very foundations of our Western, capitalist, apparently civilised society. So don't go complaining about symptoms of a society you outwardly condone. Find the root premise of your argument first and contest that.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-26-2004, 08:20 AM

$19,000 is poverty level in the US. :p

Catwoman · 07-26-2004, 08:38 AM

Actually, it's $9,310.

Lucky you. Zambia's is $322.89.

:p

xoxoxoBruce · 07-26-2004, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Actually, it's $9,310.

Lucky you. Zambia's is $322.89.

:p

Ok, I was using a family, which is what the media usually uses here.
So Zambia's income per cap(not poverty level) is $323, and Monaco's is $27,000. What does that have to do with me or you? Your comparing apples and oranges or kumquats.

Quote:

If they are richer than me, that's not my money they have earned - that's their money, and it improves me as the work and energy and ideas they have brought has improved the entire country.

It does affect you, however, if they increase your taxes by increased pressure on social services and law enforcement.

Catwoman · 07-26-2004, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Ok, I was using a family, which is what the media usually uses here.
So Zambia's income per cap(not poverty level) is $323, and Monaco's is $27,000. What does that have to do with me or you? Your comparing apples and oranges or kumquats.

You brought the poverty line issue up, which incidentally has nothing to do with my argument (see above). I was just correcting you, and putting it in perspective. :p

Undertoad · 07-26-2004, 08:36 AM

1) That's not really why tax was introduced, nor does it really do that much to change the situations of either the rich or the poor.

2) In the US, there are sectors of the country who desperately want as much immigration as possible so they can afford to run their farms and businesses. We have always more than absorbed our immigrant population - they have in fact built the country and often have become quite rich in the process, and at the very least they have pursued the life they choose.

If they are richer than me, that's not my money they have earned - that's their money, and it improves me as the work and energy and ideas they have brought has improved the entire country.

Catwoman · 07-26-2004, 09:54 AM

*Sigh*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

High earners (and that includes anyone earning over £12,000/$19,000 - congratulations you are in the top 2% of the world's population)

High earners in comparison to the rest of the world. What do I mean the rest of the world? Oh sorry, that was like telling a child about Santa Claus. :p

sorry left off tongue

Happy Monkey · 07-27-2004, 02:59 PM

Funny. Pit life-begins-at-conception vs anti-immigration.

DanaC · 07-27-2004, 03:00 PM

*chuckles*

Troubleshooter · 07-27-2004, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Funny. Pit life-begins-at-conception vs anti-immigration.

Damn, that would be a good one.

I'm picturing a Celebrity Deathmatch sort of thing.

lookout123 · 07-27-2004, 03:02 PM

*temporary thread hijacking in process*

i always thought the pro-life activists should wait until the next mother is arrested for dumping her just born baby in the trash. the argument could be that it could have been legally aborted 10 minutes prior, so what is the big deal...

DanaC · 07-27-2004, 03:15 PM

I am thinking the old abortion debate is one I should leave well alone :P

Troubleshooter · 07-27-2004, 03:17 PM

We're not discussing abortion, just the chaos that would ensue from the two sides trying to use this situation as a wedge.

07-22-2004, 06:36 PM	#1
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Purposebuilt or converted space in existing buildings? Maybe they were created out of sight/out of mind, to keep the neighbors from undue fear. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-22-2004, 06:50 PM	#2
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	"Purposebuilt or converted space in existing buildings? Maybe they were created out of sight/out of mind, to keep the neighbors from undue fear." Not hundred percent sure yet but hoping to find out more ....from what the fella at the Council was saying it sounded awfully like they were purpose built I have considered that maybe they are placed underground for "their own protection" so to speak, that is keeping then out of sight so as not to spark an anti asylum backlash at the people inside.....That explains wh they would keep it out of the press certainly but that doesnt explain why they would keep this away from the council. The Refugee Council has worked with the Home Office and NASS in the past to smooth over potentially incendiary situations. A recent example was when a group of refugees were due to come over from Sierra Leone and somewhere else ( escapes now where it was) on a special fast track system. In order to ensure the information could be out out in a positive way and in order to prevent any far right groups or the media jumping all over it and causing a lot of ill feeling the impending arrival of said refugees was kept a strict secret until they were in the country and then when the story was broken it was broken with a "feelgood" factor, pictures of smiling children with clean clothes telling the camera how thankful they are to the people of Britain for welcoming them contrasted with pitcures of the refugee camp they'd come from and in which many of the adults had spent a decade and children been born and raised....But it wasnt kept from the refugee council, instead the council and the home office worked together but maintained a silence on the issue outside of that. It's generally the nature of the Home Office and NASS that they are obstructionist in most cases, helpful in some and incompetant in others.....This particular brand of secrecy seems a new thing. I dont believe they are being set apart to prevent upsetting the populace at large I thin they are being set aside so that they do not exist in people's minds and if they dont exist in people's minds then nobody will feel a need to protect them from the state Last edited by DanaC; 07-22-2004 at 06:54 PM.

07-26-2004, 08:11 AM	#3
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	An unmitigated influx of unskilled, criminal and fundamentally 'un-useful' refugees who - regardless of their political or humanitarian plight at home - are resolutely barging through our borders - without asking? It's downright rude. It's not because their skin colour doesn't fit, or even because they're not directly contributing. It's because their very presence means WE get less. Less money, less healthcare, more tax. We are working in our piss boring 9 to 5 head fucking jobs so that THEY can enjoy a stable reintroduction to society with a press pack and meal ticket to boot. I want MY tax to pay for MY benefits. And before you liberals jump in with the predictable 'self-serving tax is an oxymoron'... oh. Actually, this is where my argument comes unstuck. You see, that is the purpose of tax. The proportion of one's income is irrelevant. Tax was introduced because a society (esp. meritocratic) is inherently unequal. Tax exists to moderate that inequality and ensure people don't die because they can't eat. High earners (and that includes anyone earning over £12,000/$19,000 - congratulations you are in the top 2% of the world's population) detest the fact that their hard-earned money should go some way to helping those who do not work for themselves. But that underpins the very foundations of our Western, capitalist, apparently civilised society. So don't go complaining about symptoms of a society you outwardly condone. Find the root premise of your argument first and contest that. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

07-26-2004, 08:20 AM	#4
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	$19,000 is poverty level in the US. :p __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-26-2004, 08:38 AM	#5
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Actually, it's $9,310. Lucky you. Zambia's is $322.89. :p __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

07-26-2004, 08:36 AM	#8
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	1) That's not really why tax was introduced, nor does it really do that much to change the situations of either the rich or the poor. 2) In the US, there are sectors of the country who desperately want as much immigration as possible so they can afford to run their farms and businesses. We have always more than absorbed our immigrant population - they have in fact built the country and often have become quite rich in the process, and at the very least they have pursued the life they choose. If they are richer than me, that's not my money they have earned - that's their money, and it improves me as the work and energy and ideas they have brought has improved the entire country.

07-27-2004, 02:59 PM	#10
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Funny. Pit life-begins-at-conception vs anti-immigration. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

07-27-2004, 03:00 PM	#11
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	chuckles

07-27-2004, 03:02 PM	#13
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	temporary thread hijacking in process i always thought the pro-life activists should wait until the next mother is arrested for dumping her just born baby in the trash. the argument could be that it could have been legally aborted 10 minutes prior, so what is the big deal... __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-27-2004, 03:15 PM	#14
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I am thinking the old abortion debate is one I should leave well alone :P

07-27-2004, 03:17 PM	#15
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	We're not discussing abortion, just the chaos that would ensue from the two sides trying to use this situation as a wedge. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)