What does being a "Liberal" mean? (US)

[classicman]

The UG comment was a joke (see smilie).

There was no dodge. Just another post of yours bashing the "other team."

And yes, we disagree on the relevance.

[Fair&Balanced]

Originally Posted by classicman

The UG comment was a joke (see smilie).

There was no dodge. Just another post of yours bashing the "other team."

And yes, we disagree on the relevance.

So because we disagree and I explained why, I am "bashing" the other team?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

So because we disagree and I explained why, I am "bashing" the other team?

now now ... no need to get defensive.

[Fair&Balanced]

Originally Posted by classicman

now now ... no need to get defensive.

I've tried to avoid any direct personal snipes.

But this, coming from one who appears to whine anytime someone might even raise a question about the intent or meaning of your posts?

I'll save the discussion of what I believe is a level of intolerance among the religious social conservatives in the US for someone on the right more interested in an honest discussion of the issue.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

I'll save the discussion of what I believe is a level of intolerance among the religious social conservatives in the US for someone on the right more interested in an honest discussion of the issue.

Perhaps that's your problem. you have me confused with someone on the right.

You posted:

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

More on what a liberal is not.
A liberal is not one who believes that the phantom menace of sharia law is a threat to American society.

Religious fear mongering is much more a conservative ideal.

You are the one who posted this in a thread - What does being a "Liberal" mean?" Not what a liberal is not.

To me it was a cheap shot at a perspective you disagree with. Thats fine and dandy, just admit it. That is all I am saying.

[DanaC]

The problem with looking to France for the impact of sharia on their society is that there is just as much, probably more in fact, fearmongering about it there as F&B is suggesting for the States.

Much of the negative impact is actually to do with the protest/counter protest dynamic, rather than the effects of sharia itself. The stuff about the veil ban is a typical example. Whatever one's opinion on the veil, it seems overkill to legislate against an item of clothing which is/was only actually worn by a few thousand women (around 4000 I think) in the entire country.

Lot of histrionics about threats to native culture and enforced integration, which was only engaged in for electoral purposes. Being 'strong' on Islam is a little like being 'tough on crime'. All the politicians are vying against each other to be the toughest. Any politician who dares suggest that the situation should be looked at with a clearer head and maybe points out the smallscale of the 'problem' gets shouted down as 'soft' on Islamic fundamentalism.

Add to that the historic problem of fraught relations between white and arabic communities in France (legacy of their colonial era), and it is easy to see how such fearmongering finds a very easy audience.

We have a similar issue in the Uk but focussed on the Pakistani community rather than Arabic.

Seriously. Do not be looking across to Europe for a reasonable attitude to Islam and muslims.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Seriously. Do not be looking across to Europe for a reasonable attitude to Islam and muslims.

If the only place to find a reasonable attitude toward a group is within that group itself, then maybe there is a reason for that.

You know the old saw: "If someone tells you you are a horse, laugh at them. If two people tell you you are a horse, look in the mirror. If three people tell you you are a horse, then you'd better saddle up."

[DanaC]

I don't really see why you two are arguing. You seem to be at cross purposes rather than actually disagreeing as such.

[lookout123]

You know the old saw: "If someone tells you you are a horse, laugh at them. If two people tell you you are a horse, look in the mirror. If three people tell you you are a horse, then you'd better saddle up."

How very intolerant.

[youtube imam]You cannot get away with comparing the religion of peace to a horse! Where do you live? I need your address so I know where to send the death threats. [/youtube imam]

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by lookout123

How very intolerant.

[youtube imam]You cannot get away with comparing the religion of peace to a horse! Where do you live? I need your address so I know where to send the death threats. [/youtube imam]

Marvin Gardens...

[BigV]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

Marvin Gardens...

There's a Marvin Gardens downtown.

I'll get a picture tomorrow.

[DanaC]

Except it isn't 'a group'.

There are lots of ways of being a muslim. There are lots of ways to enact sharia.

But if the politicians are to be believed then there's just the desert-dwellers and the woman-stoners to choose from.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by DanaC

... and the woman-stoners...

Takes one to know one.

[footfootfoot]

well the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

well the squeaky wheel gets greased.

fixed

Frank J. Gaffney, Jr. = PNAC so we may want to center the discussion on somebody credible...

That said, I'm not too big on misogynistic insular communities whether they vote Republican or not.