Russian attack on country of Georgia

[Undertoad]

But I will use that information to question what I am being told.

Now that you know it's false? That's ridiculous. Don't do that.

Current events is really hard - there is so much so know, so much to figure out. But your way is the way of the 911 truthers: aim at something you think to be true, collect every piece of information that confirms your conclusion and throw away ever piece of information that doesn't. Everybody is doing that to some degree, but I swear to you it leads nowhere.

To assume everything you're being "told" is false is madness too. You can't even tell what you're being "told", versus simple facts, typical spin, everyone's aim at "truth", etc. What you must do, if you don't have enough information, is just admit to yourself you don't know and wait for more details.

Speaking of complicated, I just found this article.

This is a natgas pipeline for India and has absolutely nothing to do with the larger issue. Pipelines are a more economical method of transporting things and will appear routinely.

[Pico and ME]

So you dont believe that our invasion of Afghanistan had anything to do with protecting US interests in central Asia?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

So you dont believe that our invasion of Afghanistan had anything to do with protecting US interests in central Asia?

George Jr administration did everything possible to get 11 September blamed on Saddam. But facts were irrefutable no matter how hard Cheney, Rove, etc spun it. Bin Laden was the mastermind behind 11 September. Virtually no responsible American civil servant was going to say otherwise.

US ultimatum was bluntly clear to Mullah Omar and his Taliban supporters. They refused to surrender al Qaeda leaders. So the US put massive support behind the Taliban's enemies. Cheney, et al had no choice - all the while planning for a Pearl Harbor attack on Iraq.

US invasion? Hardly. US forces were not even permitted to go after bin Laden in Tora Bora. The 'invasion' of Afghanistan was support for one war party over another. Some of those American allies were even 'bought off' by the Taliban - which is how bin Laden so easily walked out of Tora Bora.

Worse, the US never bothered to complete what is always required to win any war - ie Phase Four planning. If the US had plans on Afghanistan, then Phase Four plans would have - must have - been implemented. No such plans existed or were quashed by a naive administration that had no plans for Afghanistan. Who were also completely devoid of basic military concepts and strategy. Therefore even the Kabul - Kandahar highway was back in Taliban hands within a few years.

Where are all those corporate plans that justified an Afghan invasion? Back where they always existed - in conspiracy fiction stories. The administration's political agenda always was to take back *our* oil - as defined by principles that united those extremists: "Project for a New American Century". Afghanistan and bin Laden were problems that the George Jr administration repeatedly denied, intentionally delegated to subordinates of subordinates, and routinely ignored. Remember the expression, "Every light is flashing red?" Even multiple FBI investigations that threatened to uncover the 11 September plot were hindered or subverted by an administration that was in complete denial about bin Laden and his Afghan hosts.

US had no intentions on Afghanistan. In fact, Afghanistan was considered a greater threat to Iran. Just another reason to let Afghanistan be. Just another reason the administration wanted to blame 11 September on bin Laden's enemy - Saddam.

[piercehawkeye45]

The invasion of Afghanistan happened for multiple reasons. To say it was for a single reason really oversimplifies the situation and US foreign policy in general.

The world is much more complicated then any of us can imagine.

[Undertoad]

Agreed ph but there is one big reason on that one.

Before 9/11 there were many countries around the world, such as the Saudis, that supported terror, both overtly and covertly. The primary support was financial.

Previous to 9/11 our response to terror events was to either run away (Starting with Reagan, Lebanon 1983) or basically do very little, because it was difficult, and pissed too many people off were we actually to try to address it.

This informed those countries that they were free to fund as they liked, and there would be no negative result for them.

After 9/11, then, it became important to demonstrate to those countries that the US was not a paper tiger and would actually do nothing less than invade to address support of terror. Now, many years after the event, we know that the overt support has pretty much stopped; and while we don't know about the covert, we have not been attacked again, which might suggest it was successful.

[classicman]

I didn't read your novel - yet. but welcome bag there big guy. How was your hiatus?

[Tink]

So now Russia is freezing its military cooperation with NATO and its allied countries. Geez, whats next. Love stong arming, I swear.

[BigV]

What will happen with the current state of US-Russia cooperation in space?

We don't have enough shuttles to man the ISS until the Constellation program comes online. We *need* the Russian cooperation with Soyuz. Will that crash and burn too?

[lookout123]

No worries. We'll just run our shuttles on an unsafe schedule until they go kablooey!

[tw]

Originally Posted by BigV

What will happen with the current state of US-Russia cooperation in space?

The ISS is designed so that the Russian section can disconnect and continue operating on its own. Other sections are designed to be dependent on the Russian section.

[BigV]

Thanks, I feel tons better now.

[BigV]

Bush unloads a can of whoop ass on Russia

Cheney visit to Georgia keeps pressure on Russia

By BEN FELLER – 1 hour ago

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) — President Bush is dispatching Vice President Dick Cheney to Georgia, the latest burst of political support for an ally reeling from war with Russia.

The White House announced Cheney's trip Monday as the administration blasted Russia anew for failing to fully honor a cease-fire deal with Georgia, a former Soviet republic. The administration also chided Russian lawmakers for endorsing independence of Georgia's two breakaway regions, saying its Cold War foe has no authority to make that decision on its own.

Cheney is heading abroad on Sept. 2 for stops in three former Soviet Republics — Azerbaijan, Georgia and Ukraine — plus Italy.

"The vice president will be delivering the word of America's support," White House spokesman Tony Fratto.

Indeed, Cheney's presence in the war zone is a clear sign to Russia of the U.S. resolve behind Georgia after the small country was pummeled by a Russian military response. The vice president is the top-ranking U.S. official to visit Georgia since war erupted on Aug. 7.

[Trilby]

Is Georgia a sovereign state? Methinks so.

We invade sovereign states all the time! How can Condi go in there and say invading a sovereign state is unacceptable when we do it all the time!

I know and understand the world and it's politics are are NOT my strong suit, (I like reading books about poetry) but, I'm asking: how is what Russia is doing any different than what we are doing?
How come NOBODY cares about Darfur??????

[tw]

Originally Posted by Brianna

... but, I'm asking: how is what Russia is doing any different than what we are doing?

Russia is doing exactly what they warned of four and six years ago. In fact, I believe the Putin speech that bluntly warned about this was in Munich about 54 weeks ago. Russia has continuously said that American anti-world (we must take *OUR* oil) policies would restart the cold war. Things that Russia considered essential to their security (ie SALT, anti-ballistic missile treaty, nuclear non-proliferation treaty) have been unilaterally terminated or subverted by the US.

Of course, you have heard other rumors and suggestions. For example, Russia may base nuclear bombers in Cuba. It would be a necessary Russian response if George Jr continues with his 'Russia is an enemy' containment policies.

Why did George Jr want to annex Georgia into NATO? Why was he talking same about Ukraine? Bottom line conclusion is unavoidable. Another puzzle part to surround and isolate Russia. You may not have noticed. But the Russians see that quite clearly. Ukraine, the K'stans, Baltic States, anti-missile bases on their border, etc. These are not actions of an America that trusts Russia. These are historic chess moves that preceded invasion. Appreciate why Putin has repeatedly warned about American actions since George Jr and his military empire building extremists have come to power.

Before 11 September, what was the George Jr administration attitude? They still believed that Russia was an enemy. They were rearranging the White House organizational chart to return to a cold war strategy. Why were Richard Clark and the Alex Station moved out or disbanded? Those did not coincide with their extremist attitude of containing the evil Bear. We are getting the cold war we want. Notice how many completely misunderstood Russian objectives in Georgia. Russian security has been threatened by George Jr administration attitudes and actions. Unilaterally discarding international treaties has consequences four and ten years later. How many, using lessons of history, understood those consequences when those treaties were discarded by George Jr? Georgia is an example of what results.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Brianna

I know and understand the world and it's politics are are NOT my strong suit, (I like reading books about poetry) but, I'm asking: how is what Russia is doing any different than what we are doing?

I think there is a huge difference. But of course you have to buy that we did not invade for oil or some other conspiracy theory.

How come NOBODY cares about Darfur??????

Who said no one cares? We learned a lesson in Somalia on that one. Darfur is Africa's problem.