Oil jumps above $100 on refinery outage

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by glatt

The politicians absolutely have some influence on all of this. It's called leadership, and we don't have any right now.

They control purse strings for research into areas that might spawn new technologies and alternative fuels. They pass or don't pass fuel consumption standard for vehicles. They offer or don't offer tax breaks for purchasing Hummers. They offer or don't offer tax breaks for people who spend money making their homes more energy efficient.

You can either try to increase the supply, which this administration has done by invading Iraq and pushing to open wildlife refuges to drilling.

Or you can try to decrease demand, which this administration has fought at almost every turn, going so far as to give tax breaks to purchasers of Hummers. Remember Jimmy Carter putting on that sweater and telling us he was turning the thermostat in the White House down a few degrees? The government can easily pass laws dictating fuel economy of fleets of vehicles.

Or you can pump money into research of alternative fuels in order to think outside the box. Germany, for example has done this a lot. Many farmers in Germany have planted solar panels in their fields instead of crops because of government programs that make it financially attractive. There are many ideas out there that haven't been tried yet. High altitude kites that have wind turbines on them, buoys in the ocean that harness wave power are two that come to mind. Businesses aren't going to risk trying them until the price of oil justifies it, but then it may be too late. You need governments to kick start programs like this, much like the space race.

You can point to the markets and say that it's all the markets' fault, but the truth is that the government has a hell of a lot of influence here, and they aren't using it wisely. There's no leadership.

Originally Posted by lookout123

I'm not twisting or skirting anything. You're the one that wants them to do something but you won't tell us what you want them to do. What do you have in mind?

Where's the throwing up my hands smilie?

lookout, I don't pretend to know science. I can't sit here and tell you exactly what they should do. That's what they are supposed to be paid for. I can read, and I liked what glatt had to say. I said I think someone should say something, even if it's to tell us we are fools to think that we can ever rely on anything but fossil fuels. I can't go all t-dub on you, or even g-dub, but as a voting American citizen I think we deserve, at the very least, to know wtf is being talked about behind closed doors.

(My sis-in-law worked on Capitol Hill on staff for a Congressman. There are things going on that would make our jaws drop. It's like curing cancer: I bet it can be done, but there's no money in the cure. We must keep big bidness happy, right?)

[glatt]

Maybe it's because I have children that this is beginning to bug me so much, but I think we are very near peak production of oil right now. I don't know if we haven't quite reached peak yet, or if we passed it a few years ago. But I do think that it took us about a hundred years to use up about half the oil on Earth. We are using fuel at ever increasing rates, and China is going to increase those rates dramatically. We got 100 years out of the first half of the oil. I bet we use the second half of the oil in 50 years. As the supply dwindles and more and more people are competing for less and less oil, it will get painful real fast. We might only have 25 years of useful oil.

As things stand right now, we don't have any alternatives to replace the fossil fuels. Sure, the selfish and greed driven markets will eventually wake up and see what's coming and begin to really work on this difficult problem but it may be too late then.

What should government do? They should dictate fuel economy for all new vehicles. The SUV loophole has gone unaddressed for too long. They should create huge tax incentives for conserving fuel in other areas, like getting high efficiency utilities in houses and businesses. Those are just two examples, but you get the idea. They should promote/enforce/cajole/dictate conservation.

They should also do everything they can to promote innovation in areas of alternative fuels. Just like it funds the DARPA race for robot vehicle development, I think the government should be very aggressively pushing for alternative fuels. If America discovers the next great fuel technology, maybe we can rule the world again. It's been a while since we have developed a groundbreaking new technology. I mentioned the space race before, and I'm really serious about that. Back in the 60's, the government made putting a man on the moon a priority, and spent a lot of money and a lot of effort organizing that project. The country was behind it. We had a leader then. We need a similar leader now but it should be an energy race. Not a space race.

Lookout asked who should profit from this. I'm not sure how to do that, but the government auctions off its resources and rights all the time. A similar system could be set up.

The one thing we shouldn't do is sit here watching the end of oil coming towards us (from 50 years out) and pretend it isn't happening.

Oh, and a bump in oil prices now because of the low dollar isn't the problem I'm focused on, I'm speaking slightly more long term. A few decades out.

[TheMercenary]

Gas just went up to $3.12 a gallon here (reg unleaded). 2 weeks ago it was less than $3, $4 is just around the corner.

[Trilby]

Gas here in Dayton---3.45/gal.

I laugh at your SUV, sir. I laugh.

[TheMercenary]

I love my truck, I only get 16mpg but it will be a long time before I give it up.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I love my truck, I only get 16mpg but it will be a long time before I give it up.

There's just something women like about a pickup man.

[tw]

Originally Posted by monster

So, then, you do keep the engine running just to keep you warm while you sleep? Or are there other reasons? Is it cheaper to rent a room in the places where you have to stop or not ? Maybe there are other reasons for needing to stay in your cab? security for example?

The topic is energy. What you felt that I assumed that you assumed was your feelings on the opinion of gas prices ... funny how others do just that - personalize by reading what never existed. Ok. You were making humor. Or am I assuming that what you felt that I assume that your assumed was your feeling on .... never mind. It uses too much energy.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Brianna

There's just something women like about a pickup man.

You mean it proves women are smarter than men?

[Undertoad]

tw, in case you don't follow the section, you were mentioned in a thread in Cellar Meta.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I got gas at about 10:15 last night, in the ghetto.
It took quite awhile to pump the gas and then answer a bunch of questions about my truck to a deaf guy that was cleaning up trash.
Anyway, the whole time I was there, the line at the window of the glass booth, was from 1 to 4 people deep, buying cigars and individual (not packaged) cigarettes.
Must be a recession.


btw... tonight gas was 10 cents a gallon higher.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by tw

You mean it proves women are smarter than men?

You're not being emotional in this response, are you?


But, yes, as the song goes: Da Woman is Smartah!

[classicman]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Anyway, the whole time I was there, the line at the window of the glass booth, was from 1 to 4 people deep, buying cigars and individual (not packaged) cigarettes.

They make "blunts" outta them Bruce.

[lookout123]

He knows that I'm sure. I think he was pointing out that they still have money for luxuries even though the talking heads tell us we're all flat broke and can't get food.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lookout123

I think he was pointing out that they still have money for luxuries even though the talking heads tell us we're all flat broke and can't get food.

The market for rolling papers must be booming. (don't worry, be happy.)

[HungLikeJesus]

A dentist may decree that oil production increase, and a goose may command that the Great Wall leap into the air.
--New York Times, Jan. 20, 1981

[Tip Mug quote - seems appropriate]