Bridge Collapse

[Undertoad]

One imagines an annoyed tw, on the scene, sternly ranting at all the people trying to help the kids on the bus.

"Ridiculous people. Only the foolish would be emotional. This bus is not the most important matter right now. Focus your priority: we must all look for and document evidence in the water that will help explain the bridge failure, before it is carried downstream and lost."

[TheMercenary]

I heard on the news today that the next step will be to bring in Navy Salvage Divers to remove the biggest bits by large commercial cranes that are on the way. Should be an interesting engineering feat.

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Yes, it's an epoxy paint like we use on airframes. Concrete doesn't stick to the iron work, it get it's purchase from the shape of (bumps on) the rebar.

That was my initial impression (bumps/grooves on the rebar being that which the concrete"grips upon") If I recall correctly they are in a diamond pattern running the length of the rebar...annnywayyyyy... if the rebar is rusting those grooves intended to hold it together would be greatly diminished and that, coupled with the vibration of years of automobile, could lead to some type of faulty structure. I cannot imagine the engineers not accounting for this when the bridge was built. Unless that nifty de-icer they installe increased the degradation of the supporting rebar exponentially.

Does anyone know if this has been the reason for replacing/rebuilding a bridge of similar structure in the past?

[xoxoxoBruce]

The biggest problem with rebar rust is that it splits the concrete, weakening the structure. On the W-35 bridge, I'd be more concerned with the effect on exposed steelwork of the nasty road clearing chemicals. But keep in mind this is wild speculation and we'll have to leave it to the experts to cover... uh, make the final determination that it's nobody's fault.

[yesman065]

I understand that - I was wildly speculating along with you. As a total aside - hat brought me to these train of thought was an old boat trailer I bought - I completely disassembled, had all the parts sandblasted and then reassembled. Err, tried to reassemble. There was so much damage to the steel that during the disassembly and sandblsting the pieces did not go back together properly. There were up to 1/4" gaps in some spots where there was supposed to be none. In fact, I had the whole thing galvanized and still had to insert some shims after that!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Not to worry......

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by tw

Land lines and mobiles? Or just cell phones?

All I know is that the cell phones were jammed.

[warch]

Bruce- I have to note that I love the way you used the word "purchase".

Pierce- Hey Mpls! Glad to meet you not as a featured new item with unfortunate head shot.

The rebuild is on the fast track. I think most people just want it on the SAFE track. Contractor bids are due in tomorrow. Yikes. I think its politicians reacting to the Katrina lag.

Navy is here to crank the junk up. The staging area is slick. Proof that some locals were making good on the post 9/11 training and funds. The city park has been turned into parking, service tents, boat docking, trailers of supplies. Cordoned off, you see park, cities, U, and state cops, contractors and other civilians, guard, and now navy working in concert.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by warch

Pierce- Hey Mpls! Glad to meet you not as a featured new item with unfortunate head shot.

Thanks, I'm glad you're okay as well.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

DanaC, I read tw's posts. I stand by my contentions -- at best, the man's a neurotic: emotionally dysfunctional. At worst, there is some degree of sociopathy there -- also an emotional dysfunction, among other things.

His complete want of people skills, to a degree that does suggest counseling may be appropriate, is demonstrated in his manner of posting -- for one thing, this man cannot persuade, and he turns unpleasant very swiftly when he fails at it. Contrast his manner, if you're in a researching mood, with mine.

And incidentally, if you think anything you've said disqualifies tw from the world of politics then you are a fool.

I'm not that foolish: it's tw's manner that disqualifies him from the world of politics. I merely observed that this is so, if you'd kindly go back and reread.

[DanaC]

His complete want of people skills, to a degree that does suggest counseling may be appropriate, is demonstrated in his manner of posting -- for one thing, this man cannot persuade, and he turns unpleasant very swiftly when he fails at it. Contrast his manner, if you're in a researching mood, with mine.

a) you're both fucking mentalists if you ask me.
and

b) none of what you say in any way suggests he is sociopathic, merely that his posts display characteristsics you dislike.

I'm not that foolish: it's tw's manner that disqualifies him from the world of politics. I merely observed that this is so, if you'd kindly go back and reread.

Again, if you think anything about tw's manner in any way disqualifies him from politics you are a fool.

[Aliantha]

there are a lot of politicians who are a bit lacking in social skills if you ask me.

[DanaC]

I know of several whose personal skills would, in a sane world preclude them from ever having a career public service...ours is not a sane world.

[Aliantha]

Oh god, don't get me started on public servants. lol

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I know of several whose personal skills would, in a sane world preclude them from ever having a career public service...ours is not a sane world.

I have no skill at lying or implying. I say things bluntly and honestly. I also hold little respect for ideas that arrive without the whys and numbers. When such supporting facts are missing, unfortunately, the messenger might take personal insult rather than grasp what is important - those missing supporting facts and numbers. Many people also associate speculative opinions as if it were their soul. It's not. It’s only a fact or opinion with a life of its own.

Another problem. Many don't want to be told the truth. We mostly want to hear only what we want to hear. Nobody can get elected being honest. It is why, for example, the White House could so easily destroy realities about global warming with outright lawyer rewritten lies. We often don't want to hear honest reality. So we elect lying politicians. Of course. And then blame politicians for being liars.

Why do politicians spin? More important is getting elected. Truth is only a secondary problem. Getting them to like me: that is more important to a politician. That just is not me. I never claimed to be politically correct. I would rather be liked for being honest rather than lying. But politically correct rather than honest is exactly what many want. I appreciate their point when they say, "We just cannot say that." But to lie is actually painful to me.

I just have no idea how, for example, Urbane Guerrilla can live with himself. His routine 'rewriting of history' even in the first thread he participated in is to me amazing. I could not live with myself lying that often every day.

What makes me unique? More than anything else - I have a massive contempt for liars and for those who always know only using wild speculation or a political agenda - other examples of lying.

Yes, I could never be a politician. A politician puts human emotion ahead of honesty. Lying is too much part of the job.