Saddam to Swing - Page 6

9th Engineer · 11-18-2006, 08:32 PM

Ah, it's the old 'human but not a person' argument

Flint · 11-18-2006, 10:13 PM

And, if only in those cases, the benefit would be...uhhh...well...nothing tangible . . . actually . . . what is the benefit again?

Aliantha · 11-19-2006, 12:18 AM

Wolf, I've voiced my opinion about abortion in another thread quite recently here. The one that argued quite extensively about where life begins.

I am pro abortion.

I'd like to ask those who are pro death penalty what they think about the actual person who commits a sanctioned murder. Don't you think doing that for a living would fuck you over royally after some time?

9th Engineer · 11-19-2006, 01:13 AM

Depends, I don't think the guy pulling the switch on a multiple murderer/rapist is going to lose sleep.

bluecuracao · 11-19-2006, 04:40 AM

Damn, I had what I thought was a very eloquent response to Ali and 9th's posts, but then MonkeyBoy stopped working and started debating me on the whole thing. DAMN IT it's all shot to hell!

Aliantha · 11-19-2006, 06:14 PM

So you think you'd cope with it well do you 9th? You could kill people for a living?

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-25-2006, 10:09 PM

Aliantha, if it's sanctioned, it is by definition not murder. This is not to call it easy, though. Nowadays, nobody is a career professional executioner.

Living criminals have a recidivism rate. Executed ones don't.

I've said before, and in your hearing, that at the point of a death penalty, it's self-defense, extended society-wide, and it's damage control. Some villains are simply not redeemable, not in this life. Rehabilitation is shown, usually at length, to be ineffective with these, or simply impossible.

12-01-2006, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

... Some villains are simply not redeemable, not in this life. Rehabilitation is shown, usually at length, to be ineffective with these, or simply impossible.

Damn... now we have to murder kleptomaniacs.

Aliantha · 11-26-2006, 02:13 AM

I don't care if you want to give it a special name UG. It's still killing someone else. That's murder in my books, and no amount of rationalising by you or anyone else will change that fact.

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-29-2006, 09:06 PM

Aliantha, you're blowing it, and egregiously: the difference between a rightful killing (defense of your life or that of another) and wrongful (in brief, not defense but in aid of wrongful aggression) has been understood since the Bronze Age. I understand it; explain why you cannot. I am not rationalizing, nor contorting reason.

Killing's not the nicest thing around, to be sure -- but getting killed is, as I'm sure you'd agree if put to it, worse by a long chalk.

Aliantha · 11-29-2006, 09:29 PM

Pressing the button which brings on the death of someone else is not self defense UG.

Urbane Guerrilla · 12-02-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Pressing the button which brings on the death of someone else is not self defense UG.

I've explained before just what it does defend, and I think clearly enough a planarian could get it. Pay attention, Ali -- this is worth paying attention to. That there is something here you patently don't want to know doesn't mean I can't know it -- and esteem it as better than your anti-defense viewpoint.

Aliantha · 12-02-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I've explained before just what it does defend, and I think clearly enough a planarian could get it. Pay attention, Ali -- this is worth paying attention to. That there is something here you patently don't want to know doesn't mean I can't know it -- and esteem it as better than your anti-defense viewpoint.

UG...you're the one with a reading deficiency. I asked what it would do to the person that has to kill other people for a living??? If you can't address that issue without being obnoxious and answering only the part of the issue you like addressing, then don't answer.

9th Engineer · 12-02-2006, 07:41 PM

I think capital punishment is the ultimate in punishment style law. What's the worst punishment you can inflict on someone, death right? It's not about saying "we have to minimize the damage you cause to society", it's about saying that we must punish criminals for their crime. I do agree with that sentiment to a degree, punishment is the natural reciprocal of wrongdoing. It's just a matter of who we trust with that power.

Shawnee123 · 12-04-2006, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

I think capital punishment is the ultimate in punishment style law. What's the worst punishment you can inflict on someone, death right? It's not about saying "we have to minimize the damage you cause to society", it's about saying that we must punish criminals for their crime. I do agree with that sentiment to a degree, punishment is the natural reciprocal of wrongdoing. It's just a matter of who we trust with that power.

I don't know. I think you're almost putting someone out of their misery by ending their life. I think it would be worse to spend the rest of your life in prison, but perhaps that isn't how criminals think. Death, of course, would be so scary...but if your life were that messed up anyway maybe it would seem like a relief.

11-18-2006, 08:32 PM	#1
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Ah, it's the old 'human but not a person' argument __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

11-18-2006, 10:13 PM	#2
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	And, if only in those cases, the benefit would be...uhhh...well...nothing tangible . . . actually . . . what is the benefit again? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

11-19-2006, 12:18 AM	#3
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Wolf, I've voiced my opinion about abortion in another thread quite recently here. The one that argued quite extensively about where life begins. I am pro abortion. I'd like to ask those who are pro death penalty what they think about the actual person who commits a sanctioned murder. Don't you think doing that for a living would fuck you over royally after some time? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-19-2006, 01:13 AM	#4
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Depends, I don't think the guy pulling the switch on a multiple murderer/rapist is going to lose sleep. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

11-19-2006, 06:14 PM	#6
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	So you think you'd cope with it well do you 9th? You could kill people for a living? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-19-2006, 04:40 AM	#5
bluecuracao in a mood, not cupcake Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,034	Damn, I had what I thought was a very eloquent response to Ali and 9th's posts, but then MonkeyBoy stopped working and started debating me on the whole thing. DAMN IT it's all shot to hell!

11-25-2006, 10:09 PM	#7
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Aliantha, if it's sanctioned, it is by definition not murder. This is not to call it easy, though. Nowadays, nobody is a career professional executioner. Living criminals have a recidivism rate. Executed ones don't. I've said before, and in your hearing, that at the point of a death penalty, it's self-defense, extended society-wide, and it's damage control. Some villains are simply not redeemable, not in this life. Rehabilitation is shown, usually at length, to be ineffective with these, or simply impossible. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

11-26-2006, 02:13 AM	#9
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I don't care if you want to give it a special name UG. It's still killing someone else. That's murder in my books, and no amount of rationalising by you or anyone else will change that fact. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-29-2006, 09:06 PM	#10
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Aliantha, you're blowing it, and egregiously: the difference between a rightful killing (defense of your life or that of another) and wrongful (in brief, not defense but in aid of wrongful aggression) has been understood since the Bronze Age. I understand it; explain why you cannot. I am not rationalizing, nor contorting reason. Killing's not the nicest thing around, to be sure -- but getting killed is, as I'm sure you'd agree if put to it, worse by a long chalk. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

11-29-2006, 09:29 PM	#11
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Pressing the button which brings on the death of someone else is not self defense UG. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

12-02-2006, 07:41 PM	#14
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	I think capital punishment is the ultimate in punishment style law. What's the worst punishment you can inflict on someone, death right? It's not about saying "we have to minimize the damage you cause to society", it's about saying that we must punish criminals for their crime. I do agree with that sentiment to a degree, punishment is the natural reciprocal of wrongdoing. It's just a matter of who we trust with that power. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

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