Jea-lousy

[morethanpretty]

9th- I do think that there are lots of people out there like BM, its very unfortunate and annoying, but true. BM though is one of the more extreme anti-female idiots. Many men do think that a women is the responsible party when it comes to sex. This is simply not a resonable belief. Each person is responsible for their own decisions whether is has to deal with having sex or what they eat. I don't think that you are a horrible person because you take into account a woman's sexual history/behavior when you judge her for a potential mate, but realize that a woman has the same right to judge you in the same way. If you don't respect a woman after she gave herself up easy to you, she is just as able to have no respect for you. Think about why she might've been so easy, some people just don't put any importance on sex, others don't respect themselves. I've known both kinds of people, male and female.
BM- Are acting this way just for the shock factor? Thats what I'm beginning to think. Do you not get enough attention from your parents? Poor poor you.

[Elspode]

Smells like troll in here. Let's see if this works as Thread Freshener...

So...the topic of this thread is Jealousy. Thought I'd throw my update on my own somewhat nonstandard home life in here.

For those of you who glimpsed my Friday Nite Lit thread, regarding my intoxicated ponderings over my wife's first solo carnal outing in several years, well, my turn has come around tonight. I'll be seeing a lady who had been half of the couple we cavorted with the last time we were on the Poly path. Following their experience with Mrs Elspode and I, they moved on and had a relationship with another couple, and my lady friend's husband ended up running off with the corresponding couple's female half. Not one of Polyamory's shining moments, huh?

My wife is unconcerned over the notion that my lady friend and I will possibly be engaging in intimate physical acts. No, she's concerned that my lady friend and I actually like each other too much. She's worried that my lady friend will want me to herself or some such, despite my own decided lack of desire to either add a second serious partner to my life, or to leave my wife, whom I love and admire.

I bring this up because I find it odd, myself. From my male vantage point, I actually have more problem with the idea that some other dude can make my woman twist and shout, that someone else is going to be better in the sack than I. I mean, *I* believe she's not going to run off, but it still bugs me that someone else might be a better cocksman. She, on the other hand, isn't worried about (as she puts it) where I "stick my d*ck"...she's afraid I'll share some part of me or my life with someone else that I don't share with her, or that I'll be smitten and weak, and *I'll* run off.

So...ladies...gents...what say you? Are we *both* irrational? Is one of us experiencing a more sensible "jealousy" than the other? Or are we just destined to burn in Hell?

[morethanpretty]

Perhaps then the poly path isn't a good idea? Why do you want to have sex with someone other than your much loved partner? Jealousy can be the sign of a deeper problem. In this case it seems like insecurity is really the issue. Maybe you should discuss this decision with another poly couple or a couple's counsler. I know I wouldn't be able to handle the idea of my boyfriend having sex with another woman. She might (very likely) be better than I, and plus it just seems unhygenic.

[yesman065]

Although I can understand the desire to have sex with another, I could not handle either doing it nor having it done to me. I have already experienced that pain. Although it was under different circumstances - lt just doesn't work for me - the jealousy would drive me nuts. Whether it be because he was better in bed, because I'd worry that she was seeing him behind my back or even worse that she would run off with him. This is why I am a "1 woman man" - mentally/emotionally, I can't handle more than that. After what my ex-wife did to me - there is NO WAY l would ever even consider doing anything to any partner I have - EVER. After the loss of my 1st child, thats the worst pain I have ever known. I would never inflict that upon anyone else intentionally or not.

[Elspode]

And that is the tricky part of all of this. Unintentional pain can and does get inflicted...but it gets inflicted in normal day to day relationship issues as well.

This isn't my first choice of paths, either. Its my wife's, because, while we are a damn fine couple in most ways, our sex life together hasn't exactly risen to the level of fulfillment of her needs. She's a pretty adventurous sort, far in excess of my own moves, and I respect that. Bottom line is, she's going to have her fun one way or the other. I think that she'd be perfectly happy with me sitting at home while she trotted it out, but *I* can't hang with that. It ruffles my sense of fair play. So, while I don't have any great desire (spiritual, philosophical) to be a Poly person, I do view the situation with equal amounts of enthusiasm and trepidation. We have, after all, agreed upon this, with rules and restrictions, in advance, so it is definitely not cheating.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I fully well recognize how intimately we bind, well, *intimacy*, with everything else that makes up a relationship between people. However, when one doesn't have any particular moral or ethical constraints against adults doing to each other what adults see fit to do, well...this is one of the things that can occur.

MTP, you're right...it most definitely *is* a self-image/confidence issue. When I'm not giving my wife everything she thinks she deserves, making her want more, then she feels as though *I* don't want her. She feels undesireable. Now, that may be her fault, or it may be mine, but as Pagans, a Poly lifestyle is viable and not unusual. We have a couple who has been Poly for over 20 years as very close friends, and so we have access to arguably the most open and successfully Pagan couple in our community for insights, advice, apocryphal and cautionary tales...the whole panoply. We did, in fact, spend several hours just a couple of weeks ago discussing our feelings with both each other and with them. We've already been through years of marriage counseling...in short, we're as prepared as we can be for the experience, and we are both veterans of Poly living.

I still like to hear what others think, especially non-Poly folks. Perspective is important. I'm not saying any of this to shock anyone or to unduly draw attention. Cellarites are my extended family, in a sense, and I value and look forward to your opinions.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Elspode

And that is the tricky part of all of this. Unintentional pain can and does get inflicted...but it gets inflicted in normal day to day relationship issues as well.

Yes it does.

This isn't my first choice of paths, either. Its my wife's, because, while we are a damn fine couple in most ways, our sex life together hasn't exactly risen to the level of fulfillment of her needs. She's a pretty adventurous sort, far in excess of my own moves, and I respect that.

I'm having a tough time getting my mind around that. I find it hard to believe you are a prude, won't do anything she is up for...or is it stamina?

Bottom line is, she's going to have her fun one way or the other. I think that she'd be perfectly happy with me sitting at home while she trotted it out, but *I* can't hang with that. It ruffles my sense of fair play. So, while I don't have any great desire (spiritual, philosophical) to be a Poly person, I do view the situation with equal amounts of enthusiasm and trepidation. We have, after all, agreed upon this, with rules and restrictions, in advance, so it is definitely not cheating.

Sounds more like acquiesced than agreed.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I fully well recognize how intimately we bind, well, *intimacy*, with everything else that makes up a relationship between people. However, when one doesn't have any particular moral or ethical constraints against adults doing to each other what adults see fit to do, well...this is one of the things that can occur.

How about moral/ethical restraints against making your chosen partner, someone you love and care about, feeling pressured into an uncomfortable situation, unsure about their future, doubtful of their abilities as a lover/equal partner?

MTP, you're right...it most definitely *is* a self-image/confidence issue. When I'm not giving my wife everything she thinks she deserves, making her want more, then she feels as though *I* don't want her. She feels undesirable. Now, that may be her fault, or it may be mine, but as Pagans, a Poly lifestyle is viable and not unusual.

Pagan, schmagan..... poly lifestyle may be a viable lifestyle in your teachings, in your spiritual philosophy but that doesn't make it mandatory, or even viable, in your marriage, in your head, in your personal choice for your own comfort.

We have a couple who has been Poly for over 20 years as very close friends, and so we have access to arguably the most open and successfully Pagan couple in our community for insights, advice, apocryphal and cautionary tales...the whole panoply. We did, in fact, spend several hours just a couple of weeks ago discussing our feelings with both each other and with them. We've already been through years of marriage counseling...in short, we're as prepared as we can be for the experience, and we are both veterans of Poly living.

There's a big difference between armchair discussions on what you think is the right attitude to have about how others live their lives, and deciding how you feel about your own arrangement. Just because you feel you shouldn't tell other couples what they can and can't do has no bearing on deciding what you're comfortable with in your own.

I still like to hear what others think, especially non-Poly folks. Perspective is important. I'm not saying any of this to shock anyone or to unduly draw attention. Cellarites are my extended family, in a sense, and I value and look forward to your opinions.

Well you've got it.....oh boy, I get to be the dick..... you're fucking up. You've rationalized, or been rationalized, into a lifestyle you don't want. You've looked at the pros and cons, listened to the analysis, been persuaded life will be better.........BUT, you've ignored your gut. Bad move, your gut knows the truth...believe me...I've been there, done that.

[Elspode]

Straight shooting from my very good friend Bruce and my new friend Rkzenrage. I asked for no less, and got strong and valid points of view. I'll likely have something to say after I've mulled and digested the commentary, but I want to be sure you guys know that I very much appreciate the input and I am taking to heart and mind your thoughts.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I'm sure you are...I expected as much.....that's why I gave you an honest opinion, my friend. No matter what, we're with you.

[lhatcher]

I'm non-poly but mainly because I'm in a new marriage. In my previous life, married 23 years, there were plenty of times when I just wanted to 'be with' someone else. He had some serious ED problems and I just wanted to get laid right and proper. I didn't want an affair of the heart or anything like that. I would have gladly let him go wandering off if I would be allowed to do the same. For now, it's still new and lovely so I'm not going anywhere.

[Elspode]

AT 50, I've had my share of those problems, LH, and that's made things bad for *both* of us. Her, because she blames herself, and me, because I blame myself (it is, after all, me with the problem, yes?).

At present, things are functioning well (thanks for asking, even though you didn't), but several long stretches where things were otherwise have certainly left their marks. It is one piece of the complex puzzle that has brought us to this path once again.

[lhatcher]

Yeah, I don't know you well enough to ask a question like that, but not because I don't care.
His was not the occasional occurrence, nor was I worried that it was me. Oh it was him. He has a infatuation (if you can call it that) with masturbating in the morning after I had gone to work, then comes the evening and you know, after a certain age men can't get it up twice in 24 hours. He wouldn't save it for me though. So like I said, I left him but for many more reasons than just that.

[Elspode]

Girl, that's not ED...that's S-E-L-F-I-S-H.

[Flint]

No shit...jack-off-itis is not a condition you can blame on outside forces.

[bbro]

Well, since you asked, at this point in my life, I don't think I could do the whole poly thing. Don't have a problem with it really, but I know that my jealousy would definately get the best of me. I am kind of low on self-esteem and I would have all these scenerios happening in my head. I also don't think the current BF would like it if I was with other guys, either.

Even if I didn't have the jealousy, I don't know if I would be comfortable with the whole situation. I am not judging you in anyway, just my opinion. I tend to be slightly old-fashioned in my thoughts. (some not all)

I will say that the two different views that you and your wife have (you worried about the physical and her worried about the "spiritual" or mental connection) actually seems very appropriate to me. I am trying to think of why it does, but it's not coming right in my head. I think it is because sometimes women value the connection between two people rather than the physical. Like this one guy that wasn't the most attractive, but he was such a nice guy the more I talked to him, made that connection, the more I thought he actually was attractive. I want to say that men DO value the spiritual connection, but sometimes are worried about the physical aspect of it. I am thinking more along the lines of a certain person I know who thinks me getting off is one of the most important things. To me, it is the closeness that I like.

Am I making any sense?

[Elspode]

My wife has sort of a bifurcated point of view...when it is me, she doesn't care about the physical, except that it is a lack of appropriate physical attention that disturbs her...except that it is because she feels that it means I don't desire her.

Its all pretty damn confusing. And judge away. People do (not that you were).