12-28-2002, 01:44 AM | #76 |
Coronation Incarnate
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: U.S.A.
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Hermit22 -
No, they don't say the same thing at all, Jaguar is under the impression that the whole world went on an "enviro-fasting" for only 1 year to reverse damage to justify NASA's proof of depletion. Radar was quoting anti-christian thinkers specifically for un-christian reasons. And he is Tyrannical for his UNConstitutional prohibition of Religion stance. I didn't call ~him~ a commie, per se...I said Communists are Godless(Hitler was Atheist), and Radar is touting for a Godless America. The conclusion you draw from this is up to you. Saying 1 out of every 10 Americans are "non-religious" is a very generous percentage, in my opinion. Regardless, majority is majority.
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______________________________ The biggest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the World that he didn't exist. Keyser Soze |
12-28-2002, 04:20 AM | #77 | ||||||||||||
Constitutional Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
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Cairo: Once again, your circular logic gives away your total lack of intellectual ability and your claims that I’m “tyrannical” hold no water given the fact that by fighting the mixing of church and state I’m fighting tyranny itself.
You have no points for me to argue against. You make ludicrous claims that people’s right to exercise freedom of religion is infringed by not being allowed to post their religious doctrine in federally funded buildings. Posting the 10 commandments in a public place isn’t an exercise of religious freedom. It’s a violation of the 1st amendment because it amounts to respecting an establishment of religion (or even a few). Making laws that protect us from religious zealots violating the 1st amendment is not a law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Praying is an exercise of religion, attempting to make a false connection of your religion to our government by posting your religious doctrine in publicly funded buildings is not an exercise of religious freedom. Quote:
No magic attaches to a particular verbalization of an underlying concept. The concept at issue here is more accurately expressed in Madison's phrase 'separation between Religion and Government,' or in the popular maxim that 'religion is a private matter. The phrase "Bill of Rights" has become a convenient term to designate the freedoms guaranteed in the first ten amendments; yet it would be the height of captiousness to argue that the phrase does not appear in the Constitution. Similarly, the right to a fair trial is generally accepted to be a constitutional principle; yet the term "fair trial" is not found in the Constitution. To bring the point even closer to home, who would deny that "religious liberty" is a constitutional principle? Yet that phrase too is not in the Constitution. The universal acceptance which all these terms, including "separation of church and state," have received in America would seem to confirm rather than disparage their reality as basic American democratic principles Quote:
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My America allows anyone to pray anywhere they want, but not to force other Americans to pay for instructor lead prayers, unconstitutional mixing of church and state through the posting of religious doctrine, naming deities in oaths, on currency, etc. My America doesn’t prohibit or restrict any beliefs. Your America is unconstitutional, tyrannical, oppressive, and wrong! My America is all about freedom for EVERYONE, personal responsibility, limited government, etc. while yours is about an unconstitutional, imperialistic, theocracy forcing one or several religions into the lives of other Americans (or foreigners) who don’t subscribe to those beliefs. Quote:
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The “wall of separation of church and state” mentioned by Jefferson in the letter to the Danbury Baptists or in his other writings is not one-directional and nothing any of the founding fathers have ever written suggests otherwise. And for the record the Supreme Court building was finished in 1935 and the 10 commandments were posted at THAT time. NOT by the founding fathers. The 10 commandments were added by ignorant religious zealots long after the founding fathers were dead and buried. The same is true of “God” on our currency, in our oaths, and in anywhere else in our government. They believed that the total and complete separation of all religions and government were good for government and good for religions. Quote:
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First off if you add up all the atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, etc. you’d have much more than 15%. And if you add in all non-practicing religious people, you’d have even more non-religious people. Next if you add up all the religions that aren’t Christian or Jewish in America you would have less than 50% of the population. But even if each and every person except for one….me for instance wanted to post the 10 commandments in courthouses it still couldn’t be done because it goes directly against the constitution and making a law to post them goes against it too. Our INALIENABLE rights aren’t up for debate. They can’t be voted on, taken away, or even willingly given away. They aren’t given to us by government, the constitution, or even god unless you consider nature to be god. So a majority of religious people is irrelevant. Just like your entire argument. You have been schooled. Class is dismissed, so run along child. |
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12-28-2002, 07:00 AM | #78 |
Not half the God I used to be
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: everywhere but enjoy the Vets club best
Posts: 120
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(God strokes his beard and thinks to himself)
Me-dammit, maybe it's time for another flood. Or perhaps I'll create some disease for the coffee bean and just let humanity collapse into chaos and destroy itself. Things just arent they way they were, thats for sure. No one believes in me any more, no one fears me or loves me. I just get half assed requests for bullshit nowadays. "I need money, I want power, make my penis larger"...christ, I get sick of it. Ahhwell, maybe the next time I'll get it right. God's list of things to do differently next go-round: <LI> Make regular dramatic personal appearances in a somewhat human form. It’s kinda tough to deny I exist if I throw some lightening around once in a while. </LI> <LI> Fix the dogs’ lips. The Bulldog and the Boxer are living examples of my personal failure, and embarrass me. How is a God supposed to receive the respect he deserves with mistakes like this walking all over the earth</LI> <LI> Discontinue the marijuana plant experiment. It creates too much trouble. </LI> <LI> Make regular assassinations of “un godly” leaders. Humans aren’t equipped to deal with the responsibility of policing the world. At the same time, I like to watch TV just as much as any other god, and cant be bothered with the day to day details of running their government. I need to spank ass on occasion and delegate more. </LI> <LI> I need to develop an effective strategy for preventing people from arguing and fighting over me, what I say, and what I have done. Maybe if I held a weekly press conference or a talk radio program I could eliminate some of this nonsense. I thought the bible was good enough. Back in the day it was cutting edge, text on paper pages bound to contain them. It seems to have lost it's appeal though. <LI> Redesign the human body to be born with clothes that are are living, but machine washable. </LI> <LI> Make all people the same color. I fucked that one up last time. </LI> <LI> Build in a gene that grows into cancer when that person has thoughts of creating any form of tax system. </LI> <LI> Create an appendage specifically for self defense. Maybe some type of horn or tusk that can extend into a defensive position on demand. </LI> This would make these goof balls look much differently than I do and I would have to rewrite the “God made man in his own image” passage. It would be easier than leaving them the same though. Last edited by God; 12-28-2002 at 08:06 AM. |
12-28-2002, 12:07 PM | #79 |
The CIA faked my death
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: with OBL in the White House basement
Posts: 61
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Just for the record, I never asked that you make my penis larger.
I have other prayers that need to be answered right now.
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12-28-2002, 02:42 PM | #80 | |||||||
sleep.
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Location: So Cal.
Posts: 257
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Cairo, you earlier claimed that in the modern era, people can't take personal responsibility for their actions. This line of thought falls victim to the same mentality you deride so readily. Quote:
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What I do know is that there are 2 areas of ozone - upper atmosphere and regular atmosphere ozone. The holes are in both. Upper atmosphere is hit hardest by CFCs, lower by radical hydrogen atoms. Quote:
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It's a stupid argument. Come up with another one. In addition, to assume that a decades-long trend of accelerated expansion in a hole in the atmosphere has nothing to do with humanity's increased industrialization is like claiming the skies over Los Angeles are smoggy because of the weather. Quote:
Eh, I'm tired, this endless bickering is annoying. Both sides need to be willing to explore the claims of the other, but, unfortunately for you, the scientists that claim there is no man-made global warming have been proven wrong, their methods questioned, and the oversights in their analysis publicized. It doesn't help that the most prominent of these (I can't remember his name right now) is associated with the Heritage Foundation and not some non-partisan group. Anyway, go back to teaching vermin-filled history to HVACs who carry around a bullet to take their own life if the need arose.
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12-28-2002, 02:52 PM | #81 | |
sleep.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: So Cal.
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And Godlessness means Atheism. Just because Communists were Atheists doesn't mean all Atheists are Communists. And you're historically stupid if you think Hitler was Communist. He hated the Reds. Again, just because x and y are both in the set z, that doesn't mean x = y. It might be a good idea to re-examine your ideas of right and wrong. This way of thinking indicates that you may have a problem seeing grays and not just black and white.
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12-29-2002, 04:13 AM | #82 | |
whig
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,075
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*sighs*
I think hermit did a reasonably good job answering all of that crap. He also did a good job of pointing out some of your deeper flaws and endless hypocrisy. I'd like you to point out some solid scientific evidence that all the shit we've been pumping into the atmosphere has no effect, verses the mountains of detailed scientific analysis that tells quite a different story As for you trash about races, tehehehe... You completely missed my point, the UV readings here sit almost steady in the 'extreme' to 'high extreme' range, know why? Because there a fucking great hole in the only thing that protects us from instant suntan over my head. Now while your highly stated oversized aircon installing credentials may have further clouded your already foggy vision of reality, hermit did a pretty solid job of pointing out the obvious weakness in your rather silly argument. Since, unlike you, I don't think my husbands glorified aircon installation credentials are the best authority on environmental science, I did a bit of poking round the web, and out came this: Quote:
Do us all a favour and go back to teaching your kids that being a liberal makes baby jesus cry or whatever you do for kicks.
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12-29-2002, 04:42 AM | #83 |
Coronation Incarnate
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: U.S.A.
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Radar -
Of course you don't want to address and answer my points...you have no answers and can't back up your fabricated puke! What part of "Congress shall make no law..." do you not understand? You say,"The Government can do lots of interfering without making laws." This supposed "interfering" you refer to is called THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE or Democracy. Our currency,oaths, and anywhere else were voted on by We the People, it's not law, it's will! As for drugs, well, we could take a vote on it, but drug use is not a constitutional right, so there are laws made against it. If a vote on religious historical donations to a public building were offered a 90+% Majority would allow it, but constitutioal rights need no vote to be allowed. First you need to learn what Democracy and will of the people means, because America is for the people, by the people. Then you need to read the Federalist Papers. Tyrannical refers to individuals who force a minority, unpopular, and oppressive ideal/act upon the majority against their will. On this issue I am part of the majority you wish to oppress with secular humanist religion! As in, I am with the masses, you are with the asses! Get it?!!! You say,"They wanted Government out of Religion and Religion out of Government." In so far as "make no law". The only laws that have been unconstitutionally made were from the bench by our courts! Decisions that legally prohibit the people, and establish the Religion of Secular Humanists into the Government...excluding all religions and allowing a single ruling religion is what the 1st Amendment was meant to prevent! The Bill of Rights was amended and ratified into the Constitution, "separation of church and state" was in a private letter from Thomas Jefferson to Danbury Baptists assuring them that Congregationalists would not become the national religion. Strictly a personal letter, not made in an official capacity as it is misinterpreted today. http://w3.trib.com/FACT/1st.jeffers.2.html The reality, as you admit, is that the term and interpretation of"separation of church and state" is NOT a Constitutionality issue for our courts to decide and make law on...to do so is interpreting the Constitution, not law. Creator is ONE who creates. As in Being. Pay close attention to Thomas Jefferson's definition of Creator: 'Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His Wrath?...' And more quotes from Founding Fathers and others that PROVE the historical God-fearing principles of America...whatever America has become today, she was born Judeo-Christian! http://www.shalom.jerusalem.com/heri...eritage15.html So in conclusion, your pathetic attempt to censor Religion is UNConstitutional and baseless, like the DemocRATS telling us they pledge to raise taxes to balance the budget and We the People will like it!... Uh, No we won't and you just lost the vote! You said, the Constitution is not to be interpreted, and I agree. Therefore, if our Founding Fathers had meant "practice", they would have written "practice". If they had meant "praying privately" they would have written that. No, they wrote FREE EXERCISE, which means any form of action, no boundries. When I said you were shoving a Godless America down the throats of 90+% of Americans...that was rational critical thinking because you and our courts have decided to make law prohibiting the free exercise of religions against the will of the people. When YOU say I am shoving God down the throats of 100% of Americans...not only is that irrational and hysterical, it's a flat out LIE! Mostly because of MY 1st Amendment Right to free exercise thereof. Pornography is shoved down the throats of others, taxes are forced down the thoats of others, hate-speech is forced down the throats of others, abortion is forced down the throats of others, some think guns are forced down their throats, and I feel mainstream liberal-puke media is forced down my throat!...yet they are protected, YOU probably protect and support these Rights. See your hypocracy?!?!!
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______________________________ The biggest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the World that he didn't exist. Keyser Soze Last edited by Cairo; 12-30-2002 at 01:18 AM. |
12-29-2002, 06:05 AM | #84 | |||||||||||
Constitutional Scholar
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The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. Which means the rights of the people are NOT limited to what is listed in the constitution. The 10th amendment says: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. This means anything NOT listed in the constitution is a right of the people and the federal government has no authority to make decisions regarding these things or to prohibit them. The federal government may ONLY do those things specifically listed in the constitution and NOTHING ELSE!!! So since using drugs is NOT listed in the constitution it is a right of the people and can’t be governed by the fed. And since the 14th amendment says the states can’t do anything the fed isn’t allowed to do, the states can’t prohibit it either. And since I’ve PROVEN that using drugs is an inalienable right it can’t be voted on or given away. The public can’t vote on anything they want because government isn’t all powerful. The rights of individuals supercedes the powers of government. Quote:
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The “creator” of America was a group of NON-Christian/Non-Jewish men. So America is most definitely NOT Judeo-Christian. In conclusion, you have added nothing since my last post where I schooled you and proved everything I said. You have nothing of value to add to this conversation but your baseless claims, circular logic, and lame insults. Your entire argument consists of putting your fingers in your ears and saying “la la la, I can’t hear you!!” Your failed attempts to provide even one thing to support your claims has only made you look more stupid, which is a pretty difficult task. Quote:
Free exercise = freedom to worship. NOT freedom to violate the constitution, freedom to do anything in the name of religion, or freedom to unconstitutionally post your particular religious doctrine in government buildings as a violation of the 1st amendment. You are a pathetic loser and a pathological liar. You lack the intellectual ability to carry on a logical debate. You’re a worthless, ignorant, loudmouthed, idiot without a single thing to support your unconstitutional, draconian, and tyrannical wishes to mix church and state. Even the Christian belief system itself is against mixing the two, or praying in public. You so-called ideas about the constitution are laughable and so are you. I don’t know whether to laugh at you for being such a clown or to weep for you because you’re so pathetic and sad. In either case I hope that you’ll grow up and get educated. Your not worthy of further responses from me. I will reserve my effort for those intelligent enough to comprehend facts, those that don't constantly lie, and those who know when they've been beaten. You lose on all counts. |
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12-29-2002, 10:17 AM | #85 | |
Keymaster of Gozer
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No. Really. You can't buy this kind of entertainment. Watching you and Cairo arguing about religion and government has been like watching an autistic child trying to explain quantum physics to a goat. Oh. And remember the part in your last post- where you called Cairo a "a worthless, ignorant, loudmouthed, idiot"? That was beautiful, man. That brought a tear to my eye, it was so funny. Thank you.
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12-29-2002, 02:01 PM | #87 |
St Petersburg, Florida
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(slang opens his back window, takes a deep breath and yells at his capacity)
<H3>This debate is driving me crazy(er) and I can't take it any more!!</H3> (birds fly quickly out of trees, cats and dogs run in fear and a hibernating bear rolls over in discomfort)
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FTFF Last edited by slang; 12-29-2002 at 03:37 PM. |
12-29-2002, 02:45 PM | #88 | |
whig
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Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain |
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12-29-2002, 03:19 PM | #89 | |
Constitutional Scholar
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Last edited by Radar; 12-29-2002 at 03:22 PM. |
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12-29-2002, 04:00 PM | #90 |
sleep.
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Location: So Cal.
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Cairo and Radar should take this act on the road.
I just cleaned up an assload of ants that had invaded my kitchen, and I sat down at my computer to work in a really bad mood. This thread totally changed that. I'm still laughing.
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