A Town Willing To Enforce The Law

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I can't see how this will work. They are hiding from the law and are blending in with the civilian population. Also, if you read my post, I said that if we did send them out they would just come back. Even if you don't plan on sending them out on the streets, that is where they will go.


When did I say anything about how all illegals are just from Mexico or Latin America?


How much money and time would this cost? How are we suppose to keep them out?


The reason they are coming here is because their life is so shitting they are willing to take the risk of coming here illegally to have a better life. This won't solve anything except wasting money. Accepting them is a lot cheaper and it makes it doesn't cause hatred between two cultures.

The current plan is not working, and that is a fact.
1. Close the Southern border tight.
2. Begin deportations. Go to the prisons and deport the offenders who are illegal to their host nations prisons. Refuse care for illegals at hospitals except in an emergency. Force all law enforcement agencies to notify the ICE everytime an illegal is arrested or stopped for minor offenses, allow them to be detained for deportation.
3. Set up check points where anyone who wants to enter on a work visa has the chance to get one with a picture ID, finger prints, and an iris scan, develop an extensive national data base and and enforcement personnel to use it. Insist on compliance and those who do not comply would be permanantly banned.
4. I stated thier origin because I wanted to be clear that this is not about race.
5. Time and money??? That is the problem. We have never devoted the time or the money.
6. WOW! they are comming here because thier life is so shitty in their home?!?!? Who would have thunk it! Not my problem. We are wasting money having them here not the otherway around.

[wolf]

PM me your name if you ever run for public office in a jurisdiction in which I am registered to vote.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

1. Close the Southern border tight.

...

4. I stated thier origin because I wanted to be clear that this is not about race.

Ugh, will someone turn on a fan or something?

[tw]

Then we provide something that extremists never bother to provide - the numbers. America need 1.8 million immigrants to work the farms. America only issues 29,000 permits to do the work of 1.8 million. Therefore we must let the crops rot. Funny how once we include numbers, well TheMercenary advocated the destruction of American farming. Why? All laws must be right.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The current plan is not working, and that is a fact.

I never knew we even had a plan...

1. Close the Southern border tight.

How do you plan to do this? Build a big fence?

2. Begin deportations. Go to the prisons and deport the offenders who are illegal to their host nations prisons. Refuse care for illegals at hospitals except in an emergency. Force all law enforcement agencies to notify the ICE everytime an illegal is arrested or stopped for minor offenses, allow them to be detained for deportation.

So you will find a few illegals, what about the ones that don't do anything illegal once they are in the country?

3. Set up check points where anyone who wants to enter on a work visa has the chance to get one with a picture ID, finger prints, and an iris scan, develop an extensive national data base and and enforcement personnel to use it. Insist on compliance and those who do not comply would be permanantly banned.

How does this solve anything?

4. I stated thier origin because I wanted to be clear that this is not about race.

And if they lie?

5. Time and money??? That is the problem. We have never devoted the time or the money.

Which is a problem for me. I would much rather spend the time and money into education, not kicking people out of our country.

6. WOW! they are comming here because thier life is so shitty in their home?!?!? Who would have thunk it! Not my problem. We are wasting money having them here not the otherway around.

So you are completely uncapable of seeing life in someone else's shoes. Do you think your life is more valuable then their's or do you not have a soul?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Ugh, will someone turn on a fan or something?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

TheMercenary advocated the destruction of American farming. Why? All laws must be right.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I never knew we even had a plan...


How do you plan to do this? Build a big fence?


So you will find a few illegals, what about the ones that don't do anything illegal once they are in the country?


How does this solve anything?


And if they lie?


Which is a problem for me. I would much rather spend the time and money into education, not kicking people out of our country.


So you are completely uncapable of seeing life in someone else's shoes. Do you think your life is more valuable then their's or do you not have a soul?

1. The current plan is to do nothing.
2. The border could easily be shut tight. Troops, fences, and electronic counter measures. Look around the world plenty of places have done it.
3. We will find most of them. Get them properly registered for a guest worker program and the can go back to doing what they were doing. They are doing something illegal by being here illegal, certainly that is not to hard to understand.
4. If you don't think it solves anything then you don't think there is a problem.
5. Time and TAXPAYERS money for thier education! Now you are on to something. How much do you think we spend for the education of all of these children of illegals? What impact do you think that illegal aliens have on the border cities of say El Paso, TX or Southern Calif or LA???
6. I am completely capable of understanding the plight of illegal aliens, I just don't think that my taxes should bear the burden of their illegal acts or pay for their health care and education.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Get them properly registered for a guest worker program and the can go back to doing what they were doing.

Hey! We agree on something.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Time and TAXPAYERS money for thier education! Now you are on to something. How much do you think we spend for the education of all of these children of illegals?

Public education is often lacking in resources, so, not nearly enough.



This 'us vs. them' mentality is bizarre and pointless. Maybe someday, those like you will realize that they ARE us, for your own peace of mind, anyway.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

This 'us vs. them' mentality is bizarre and pointless. Maybe someday, those like you will realize that they ARE us, for your own peace of mind, anyway.

I am quite at peace with my views on the subject, have no doubt about that. They will become us the day they become US citizens subject to all the rights and responsibilities of the US Constitution. Untill then they are illegal aliens and by being here are breaking our laws and sucking off the hind tit of what our society has to offer. If they come here legally I have no problem at all. We need LEGAL immigrants, but we don't need people circumventing the system for their personal gain so they can send the money out of the country. We already have enough corporate crooks doing that, that is another subject.

[TheMercenary]

High Cost of Medical Care for Illegal Immigrants
Michael Arnold Glueck, M.D., & Robert J. Cihak, M.D., The Medicine Men

Tuesday, Dec. 27, 2005

We don't want to be thought of as Scrooges post-Christmas – particularly with the dashing approach of New Year 2006 – but we did want to make some comments regarding the consequences of illegal immigration on medicine and health care. This has certainly been one of the most important and far-reaching issues of 2005. We have received many letters from readers asking us to "Please say something" on this emotional and fractional issue.

An old axiom states that what happens in California is a precursor to what happens in the rest of the nation. Unfortunately, this is true. So look for these issues to be coming to a capital in your state soon – if they haven't arrived already.

According to the Department of Homeland Security, in 2000 the population of California had the highest percent of illegal immigrants in the country. The estimate by the Immigration and Naturalization Service was that 2,209,000 aliens resided illegally in the state, which was 31.6 percent of the estimated national total. Current 2005 illegal estimates vary between 14 million and 22 million nationwide.

A study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform estimated that in 2004 the annual uncompensated cost of medical care for illegal immigrants in California was $1.4 billion. Total uncompensated educational, health care and incarceration costs were estimated to be 10.5 billion.

Care is frequently provided to illegal immigrants by emergency rooms and is provided when a crisis exists rather than as preventive practice. Both phenomena add to the high cost of health care.

For 12 states, the government pays hospitals for providing emergency services to illegal aliens. In 2005, the state of California got $70 million to help with dismal shortfalls. California's San Diego County was about $100 million in the red and Los Angeles County about $140 million.

Many California hospitals cannot afford to absorb costs and many are forced to close due to financial mandates for treating illegal immigrants. As recently reported, 84 California hospitals are closing their doors forever. Hospital closure degrades health care to all in the community and results in job losses.

Federal laws provide states incentives to provide Medicaid coverage to illegal immigrants. All state Medicaid programs offer an endless list of services, with some states, such as Florida, literally including the kitchen sink if home repairs and maintenance are needed. Only four states check for citizenship before awarding Medicaid. California escalated – in one year – from 450,000 illegal aliens on Medi-Cal (California's version of Medicaid) in 2002 to 750,000 in 2003.

Medi-Cal covers well-baby maternity care, delivery expenses and long-term care that are incurred for children born to illegal immigrants. Thus "anchor babies" become medical insurance policies.

Noted medical lawyer Madeleine Cosman, J.D., Ph.D., wrote in her online journal on August 27, 2005, "Promoters of open borders and elevating the status of Illegal Aliens brilliantly use Americans' medical compassion against ourselves." The medical literature reports that many undocumented immigrants sequester within their bodies infectious and fatal diseases that long ago were fought and eliminated by American medicine Now illegals may carry drug-resistant strains of tuberculosis, malaria, polio, leprosy, plague, dengue fever and Chagas disease.


Are there Potential Solutions?

A number of potential solutions to reducing uncompensated health care costs require federal participation, which means that senators and congressmen from California and elsewhere must introduce federal legislation while state legislators and administrators do what is within their power to improve state laws and regulations.

Some potential solutions include:


Adopt measures to systematically collect information on undocumented alien use of taxpayer-funded services. Health care providers and civil libertarians have blocked past attempts to collect such information.

Withhold foreign aid to the country of origin in the amount spent providing uncompensated medical care and refund these moneys to providers that granted services.

Require graduates of U.S. medical schools who are citizens of foreign countries to spend community service time treating illegal immigrant patients in the U.S. as contribution in kind to defray expenses billable to that country of origin.

Provide transportation to cities in country of origin where that country is able to provide medical care.
Let's resolve, this New Year 2006, to promote a respectful exchange of ideas and opinions aimed at achieving a sane, safe and sensible solution to the immigration and medicine dilemma. With this goal our citizens, legal immigrants, illegal immigrants and those who desire to come to America and play by the rules will have a better quality of life.

It is far easier to make progress within a win-win, rather than a win-lose or lose-lose overture.

Such said, An uplifting New Year to you all!

Editor's Note: Michael Arnold Glueck, M.D., wrote this week's commentary. Contact Drs. Glueck and Cihak by e-mail.

Robert J. Cihak, M.D., is a Senior Fellow and Board Member of the Discovery Institute and a past president of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. Michael Arnold Glueck, M.D., is a Visiting Fellow in Economics and Citizenship at the International Trade Education Foundation of the Washington International Trade Council. He comments regularly on medical-legal-ethical issues.

[piercehawkeye45]

I agree that we should make it harder to get into the country because we can't have people coming into this country undocumented but those aren't the people we should be focusing on. There are many illegal aliens that have lived honest lives despite the fact that they have come into the country illegally.

I believe that any illegals that we have in prison should be deported and then encourage the rest of the illegals to gain citizenship. Hunting the illegals down like dogs will result in great consequences and personally, I think they help us more than they hurt. You can show how much they hurt our economy but how many stats do we hear that show how much they help since they are working long hours (80+ a week) on very low paying salaries.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

You can show how much they hurt our economy but how many stats do we hear that show how much they help since they are working long hours (80+ a week) on very low paying salaries.

Ok, I don't have much time but let me give you a short answer. In the South we are experiencing a phenomenal building boom. The illegals dominate the labor force. Why? You pay them min wage, no taxes for the builders, no workman's comp is paid, no insurance. Guess who is loosing out on all those jobs. Legal citizens. The work force is dominated by these people. All the builders have to do is pay them cash, if they get hurt or injured on the job they don't have to pay them anything. The idividual is not going to complain, they are illegal and fear deportation. The builder gets a break on his costs of hiring workers and the legal laboror is locked out of the work force. Happens all the time. Same for yard workers, construction, and small businesses in food service. Guess who pays for the illegals health care. Guess who pays when they show up at the ER with pneumonia or a pregnant wife. Guess who pays when they fall off a roof. You, me, and the taxpayers.

[Ibby]

TheMercenary, show me a legal documented worker whos willing to work those hours for that pay and do as good a job.
Whats that? There arent enough?

Whatever happened to laissez-faire conservatism anyway?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Ibram

TheMercenary, show me a legal documented worker whos willing to work those hours for that pay and do as good a job.
Whats that? There arent enough?

Whatever happened to laissez-faire conservatism anyway?

You are ignoring the market forces. There are plenty of people in this area that would do the work. Think of it like this. If you have 25 people willing to do the job but only 10 jobs are available, who sets the price for their pay? The employer. And further costs are cut because of the fact that the employer does not have to pay all the other things that are required by law.

Now if you have 15 people for 10 jobs who benifits? The worker. Because the employer will need to compete with other employeer for that work force and the pay will go up. With the best workers getting the most money.