Scare yourself

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I claim to not be a racist, but I suppose it's a matter of how someone define's it. I do, however, resent anyone treating me like the enemy when I've done nothing to them, indeed, I don't even know them.

Just as I hate being profiled based on skin color and others' behavior.

So, how do I change their minds?

[jane_says]

You can't change their minds. That's the unfortunate part. And you know, the real issue is that it's not up to you to have to change them. No one should have to cajole or beg to be treated like a regular Joe(sephine).

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by jane_says

You can't change their minds. That's the unfortunate part. And you know, the real issue is that it's not up to you to have to change them. No one should have to cajole or beg to be treated like a regular Joe(sephine).

No one is "begging" or otherwise.

Then I guess we continue as we are.

[lumberjim]

the core of the problem with racism is that it begets racism.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

Just as I hate being profiled based on skin color and others' behavior.

So, how do I change their minds?

Do they say so or do you perceive their feelings? Do you assume anyone that's rude is racist?
I'm curious because I can't imagine many people openly stating they don't like you because your black. Also does in happen more when you're alone? With other black people? With Syc?

[wolf]

My issue runs more along the lines of the fact that there is a clear double standard ... pride is permitted, unless it's "white." One can be proud to be black, queer, latino/a, native american, pagan, asian, etc. without penalty ... but white pride is automatically equated with racism. White guy kicks the shit out of a black guy and it's a hate crime. Black males torture, rape, and kill four or five white young adults specifically because they are white and it's not.

An equally wrong double standard exists between behavior that I, as a female, can get away with, that a male would get reprimanded, fired, or criminallly charged for engaging in in the workplace.

If we're going to be fair about things, lets be fair.

[jane_says]

No one should even have to ASK to be treated decently, much less beg, and I wasn't suggesting that you should. I hope that's not the impression that I gave.

And I agree that what's fair for one is fair for all. White people have never been persecuted in this country (and off the top of my head, I'm having a hard time coming up with a country where white people have been racially persecuted). Minorities still are not on a level playing field. The year I graduated, 1993, there were no black students in my high school. That's odd, since about 20% of this town's population is black. I remember two black girls, sisters, who began attending the school a few weeks after the school year started. Everything went fine, and they appeared to be rather well-liked, until the older sister tried out for, and made, the cheerleading squad. They didn't last two weeks after that. Everyone was willing to deal with them until they got "uppity". How dare they displace white girls from the cheerleading squad? They were harrassed until they left and began attending the "ghetto" school.

It seems obvious to me that if we can't treat "American minorities" with respect, we're not going to bother to do much better with "foreign minorities".

[xoxoxoBruce]

I remember two black girls, sisters, who began attending the school a few weeks after the school year started. Everything went fine, and they appeared to be rather well-liked, until the older sister tried out for, and made, the cheerleading squad. They didn't last two weeks after that.

How were they harassed? And by whom? It had to be some serious shit to force them out of the school in 2 weeks. Did they report it to the school administration? The police?

[slang]

Originally Posted by jane_says

It seems obvious to me that if we can't treat "American minorities" with respect, we're not going to bother to do much better with "foreign minorities".

I disagree. It depends largely on the minority and that individual's attitude.

Personally, I'll give an Indian a lot of slack when I fist meet them. I like them collectively and have several friends in India.

If a black person doesnt come across as if I owe them something for being a white guy, I'll be very accomodating with them as well. The black people in this country are tough to deal with in the way that, from my experience, they take any negative that someone might have to say as something blatantly racist. How do you deal with that attitude? I find it difficult, although I do have some sympathy for much of the pre-1950s era.

The most successful encounters with blacks have been those with a good sense of humor. I guess that goes a long way with anyone. Humor tends to break many barriers. And a smile. A smile says, It's ok to talk to me. Again, this is just human nature.

Don't be so quick to be offended for Christ's sake. That's another barrier that I've seen in more than a few people, not just minorities. I'll like anyone if they just follow the basic rules of being a nice person. We may not click like someone else but that's just people, not different colors of people.

And......for my comedy wrap up.....I can hate you without regard to your nationality or skin color.


One idea I forgot to mention here is that this country is a mix of almost all races and nationalities. There is an example of success for every different minority here. How would that type of racial diversity stack up in many of the other countries of the world? Not even close to us. We arent perfect but everyone that plays the game gets to win at some level.

[Undertoad]

I asked Syc one time whether anyone - neighbors, checkout ppl, etc. had made any specific comments about the fact that he and LSyc are a mixed couple and he said no. This, I should think, is progress.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by wolf

My issue runs more along the lines of the fact that there is a clear double standard ... pride is permitted, unless it's "white."

This is my real sticking point, too. I don't understand why so-called 'racial heritage' is something for every other group in the world to be proud of, but of which Caucasians must forever hang their heads in shame.

Cultural celebration, if valid for one group, is valid for all.

[Clodfobble]

White people have never been persecuted in this country (and off the top of my head, I'm having a hard time coming up with a country where white people have been racially persecuted).

That's because white people aren't really white. They can be Jewish, Italian, Irish, British, German, French, etc. etc. etc. And incidentally, the Irish were discriminated against viciously in the early 20th century in this country. The common sign outside businesses at the time was "No Irish Need Apply." Germans in this country were discriminated against during WWII. "White" applies to too many different people, especially in America.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by Elspode

This is my real sticking point, too. I don't understand why so-called 'racial heritage' is something for every other group in the world to be proud of, but of which Caucasians must forever hang their heads in shame.

Cultural celebration, if valid for one group, is valid for all.

Whites celebrate their various cultures all the time--Italian, Irish, etc. And most of them are fortunate in that they know where they came from. Most Blacks aren't so fortunate. Hell, most of them don't even have their own family names. Johnson? Strickland? Wilson? Those don't sound like African names to me.

As far as celebrating one's whiteness...well, look at American society. As a whole, it's still one big celebration of white (particaly WASP) pride, though that is changing.

[jane_says]

Bruce, they were harassed by other students at the school. They were held against their will in the bathrooms, they were tripped, called names, etc. on a daily basis. I don't know if they ever took any legal action or not, but I don't think so. If they had, it would have been pretty big news. As another example, my friend dated a black teeanger who was living in a group home run by a cop and his wife. All the other teens who lived there went to our school, but when Marlon arrived every day, he got on another bus, headed for another school. The bus that went to the high school where the shared technical program for the county was located, because the school had advised him he'd be "safer" there.

slang, I'm sure the Indians appreciate all the slack you cut them. Very generous of you. And for the blacks who don't "come across like you owe them something", I'm sure the experience is enjoyed by all.

Are we never going to progress past the point where people actually say "I'm not racist! I have black/green/orange friends, or I work with them, or whatever"?

And Clodfobble, have you been watching Gangs of New York? I have Irish ancestors, and though I can empathize with what Irish immigrants must have faced many years ago, it's over now. Even someone who fancies themselves above the Irish won't be able to tell if you are if you don't tell them. The same can't be said for blacks.

[jane_says]

Imagine, if you will, a smilie after my first sentence in the fourth paragraph.