Bush's Shrinking Safety Zone

[Griff]

What about broccoli pizza?

[DanaC]

If you serve broccolli pizza I think that makes youa communist...

[Clodfobble]

At the very least, a flip-flopper.

"I actually chose the broccoli before I chose the pizza!"

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

"I actually chose the broccoli before I chose the pizza!"

Now you sound like Hillary!

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

Russia Good! Commies Good! Russia should be Trusted!... US BAD! Evil Empire! Down with America! Make US like Russia all will be GOOD! All evils in the world are fault of US! Down with America!

WTF?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by richlevy

We always talk about democracy and patriotism, but we always seem to ignore the fact that in many cases the democratic and patriotic goals of other countries are in conflict with our goals. It's like saying to a five-year-old "I know I told you that you can have what you want for dinner, but you don't want pizza, what you really want is broccoli".

Yea, I know. We will always be in a position of making decisions which favor US interests on the stage of international politics which will always conflict with other nations interests. I guess it's what makes the world go round. Of course we could just abdicate all our interests to the UN and let there be One World Government. Or we can treat 5 year olds like 5 year olds. I am really not interested in allowing other countries to tell us what is in our best interest.

[DanaC]

I am really not interested in allowing other countries to tell us what is in our best interest.

But you're quite happy for your country to tell others what is in their best interest ?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

But you're quite happy for your country to tell others what is in their best interest ?

Not at all. If I had my way we would withdraw all, and I do mean all, funding from all countries and fix our problems at home. I think we should stay out of everyone's business and let them self destruct. Some will make it, some will not. See who is left over and deal with the winners. Take WW2...

[piercehawkeye45]

Merc, what if a neighboring country is doing something that is hurting your country?

Lets say the Mexico starts releasing this chemical that causes very powerful acid rain and tears up the ozone layer but when Mexico releases these chemicals, they drift up to Georgia. Shouldn't we have a right to tell Mexico to stop using those chemicals or at least release them somewhere else.............like Canada :p ?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Merc, what if a neighboring country is doing something that is hurting your country?

Well on the diplomatic front I would just advocated nuking the fuck out of them and seeing who is left over. I mean really, we just can't go on having it both ways.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Hmmm... four calendar days now and no sourcing from tw. Guess he just makes shit up.

Going... going... gone. [dying Pac-Man sound]

@Merc: I agree with the spirit -- those sentiments may pretty safely be attributed to tw. But I don't use a quote box that way as I reckon it unethical to do. I'd suggest plain ol' quote marks. (I can't figure a "Quote Marx" pun to fit in here... sighhh.)

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well on the diplomatic front I would just advocated nuking the fuck out of them and seeing who is left over. I mean really, we just can't go on having it both ways.

Hahaha, I like that idea.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Oh yeah, that's a wonderful idea. Then we'd have a nuclear dust cloud over Georgia instead.

[tw]

Intelligent people know that torture results in less or unreliable information. Those with 'big dic' disease - a mental disorder - would disagree. From the Washington Post of 6 Oct 2007:

Fort Hunt's Quiet Men Break Silence on WWII
When about two dozen veterans got together yesterday for the first time since the 1940s, many of the proud men lamented the chasm between the way they conducted interrogations during the war and the harsh measures used today in questioning terrorism suspects.

Back then, they and their commanders wrestled with the morality of bugging prisoners' cells with listening devices. They felt bad about censoring letters. They took prisoners out for steak dinners to soften them up. They played games with them.

"We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture," said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with Hitler's deputy, Rudolf Hess.

Blunt criticism of modern enemy interrogations was a common refrain at the ceremonies held beside the Potomac River near Alexandria. Across the river, President Bush defended his administration's methods of detaining and questioning terrorism suspects during an Oval Office appearance.

Several of the veterans, all men in their 80s and 90s, denounced the controversial techniques. And when the time came for them to accept honors from the Army's Freedom Team Salute, one veteran refused, citing his opposition to the war in Iraq and procedures that have been used at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

"I feel like the military is using us to say, 'We did spooky stuff then, so it's okay to do it now,' " said Arno Mayer, 81, a professor of European history at Princeton University.

When Peter Weiss, 82, went up to receive his award, he commandeered the microphone and gave his piece.

"I am deeply honored to be here, but I want to make it clear that my presence here is not in support of the current war," said Weiss, chairman of the Lawyers' Committee on Nuclear Policy and a human rights and trademark lawyer in New York City.

George Jr is so quick to deny when facts say America was torturing (Cheney even publically advocated torture). From the NY Times of 5 Oct 2007:

Bush Says Interrogation Methods Aren’t Torture
President Bush, reacting to a Congressional uproar over the disclosure of secret Justice Department legal opinions permitting the harsh interrogation of terrorism suspects, defended the methods on Friday, declaring, “This government does not torture people.”

The remarks, Mr. Bush’s first public comments on the memorandums, came at a hastily arranged Oval Office appearance before reporters. It was billed as a talk on the economy, but after heralding new job statistics, Mr. Bush shifted course to a subject he does not often publicly discuss: a once-secret Central Intelligence Agency program to detain and interrogate high-profile terror suspects.

“I have put this program in place for a reason, and that is to better protect the American people,” the president said, without mentioning the C.I.A. by name. “And when we find somebody who may have information regarding a potential attack on America, you bet we’re going to detain them, and you bet we’re going to question them, because the American people expect us to find out information — actionable intelligence so we can help protect them. That’s our job.”

Without confirming the existence of the memorandums or discussing the explicit techniques they authorized, Mr. Bush said the interrogation methods had been “fully disclosed to appropriate members of Congress.”

We must make a decision. America tortures prisoners (resulting in numerous phony Orange Alerts, Guantanamo, and secret prisons), or George Jr tells the truth. These are mutually exclusive conditions. Most extraordinary - some still say George Jr is honest. Of course he is. He talks to god - which is also what George Jr claims. Some with 'big dic' disease even believe him.

[tw]

From the NY Times of 5 Oct 2007:

Bush Says Interrogation Methods Aren’t Torture
The clash colored Congressional relations with Alberto R. Gonzales, the former attorney general. And by Friday, it was clear that the controversy would now spill over into the confirmation hearings for Michael B. Mukasey, the retired federal judge whom Mr. Bush has nominated to succeed Mr. Gonzales in running the Justice Department.
Senator Carl Levin, the Michigan Democrat who is chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, sent a letter to Mr. Mukasey asking him whether, if confirmed, he would provide lawmakers with the Justice Department memorandums.
And Senator Charles E. Schumer, the New York Democrat and Judiciary Committee member, said he expected the memorandums would become a central point in the Mukasey confirmation debate.
"When the president says the Justice Department says it's O.K., he means Alberto Gonzales said it was O.K.," Mr. Schumer, who has been a vocal backer of Mr. Mukasey, said in an interview.

Alberto Gonzales, who consistently agrees with George Jr, is a close friend and came from TX with George Jr. Do George Jr and Gonzales disagree on torture? Obviously doubtful. Nobody expects a Spanish Inquisition.