Congress has lost its mind...

[ZenGum]

Wikipedia editors sometimes lock articles which are the subject of edit wars like this.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I do not. Wiki should not be trusted but for only the basic and benign facts that are completely accepted by all. Frank was a sexual predator and the Dems gave him a pass. Good ridden's to the MoFo.

From Wikipedia's 'What Wikipedia is Not' page:

Scandal mongering, something "heard through the grapevine" or gossip. Articles and content about living people are required to meet an especially high standard, as they may otherwise be libellous or infringe the subjects' right to privacy. Articles should not be written purely to attack the reputation of another person.

It seems a little unfair to say that wikipedia 'cannot be trusted' for things that aren't 'basic benign facts that are completely accepted by all' when that is its stated remit. Perhaps better to say that Wikipedia is not there to provide anything but the basic facts as accepted by all, and cannot speak to matters beyond that.

[classicman]

basic facts as accepted by all

almost, but not really. It depends upon the subject. This all goes back to the inherent bias we all have.
Rewriting history and all that..

cannot speak to matters beyond that.

yet at times it does...

[classicman]

If you ever needed any proof that the congress is totally dysfunctional and unable to do anything - even something it wants - their failure to agree on a payroll tax cut extension is it.

Forget who is at fault. They all are for letting it go this far. Both sides are so determined to undermine the other that they can't even figure out how to do something they both want: Extend the payroll tax cut.

If this gridlock continues, it will be a fitting end to a year in which Congress accomplished absolutely nothing.

Nothing, unless you want to give them credit for not allowing the government to shut down. I give them no credit for that because I think that is the least we should expect of the people we send to Washington. Yet, that was what they spent most of their time arguing about.

What made this latest episode more odious than usual, is that by sending the legislation to a conference committee, House Republicans killed Senate legislation but did not have to go on record as saying they had voted to give people a tax increase. But make no mistake. That is exactly what they have done if this stands.

There is a reason that Congress has a 9-percent approval rating, and today's antics are like putting up a neon sign to remind people of it.

Bob Schieffer ...
Couldn't have said it better myself.

[glatt]

Forget who is at fault.

why?
We all know it's the relatively new Tea Party representatives. This was a bipartisan deal, passed overwhelmingly in the Senate. And the tools in the Tea Party are the spoilers. They shot it down and offered nothing in return. It's very ironic to me that the Tea Party is the group behind the coming tax increases. It's exactly the opposite of what they say they are about.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by glatt

why?
We all know it's the relatively new Tea Party representatives. This was a bipartisan deal, passed overwhelmingly in the Senate. And the tools in the Tea Party are the spoilers. They shot it down and offered nothing in return. It's very ironic to me that the Tea Party is the group behind the coming tax increases. It's exactly the opposite of what they say they are about.

Although I agree with you for the most part, they are all at fault for dicking around until the last moment. They spend way more time on political posturing than they do on actual legislating.
They need to STFU and DO whats right for us, not them.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by classicman

Although I agree with you for the most part, they are all at fault for dicking around until the last moment. They spend way more time on political posturing than they do on actual legislating.
They need to STFU and DO whats right for us, not them.

Please tell us how the Dem's can stop dicking around...
... maybe cut unemployment benefits again ... yeah, that's one way.

[glatt]

The legislators typically dick around until the last minute, until the pressure is really on and they then make a last minute deal. I don't approve of that governing style, but it's the way it has been forever. What's different now, is that they are dicking around until the last minute, they make a deal, and then the Tea Party spoils it and now they have mostly all gone home for the holidays while the middle class gets to face their unemployment benefits being stopped and their paychecks being cut. Merry fucking Christmas, America. Brought to you by the Tea Party.

[BigV]

No.

No, they're not all at fault, that is what the *bad* ones want you to think. "I'm bad, I'll just fuck up the whole parade, and then my badness will blend in with the rest. My badness will be covered up, the good work of others, my enemies, will be covered up. It is my goal to make it all look bad." I think it's important to assess each issue on its own merits, and each member on their own merits.

AS A GROUP, Congress is seriously fucked up. On this we agree. But that is not because "they are all at fault" equally. In this most recent ... event, I place the most blame for what's happened, that is what has not happened, on Boehner. He's the leader of the party that is in charge of the agenda in the House. The House is where this is stopped, and in the most craven way. I like how he/they have caused the process to fail (for the moment) by a parliamentary procedure, and *not* by an actual vote. I am weary of this kind of behavior. It is a perversion of our system, evidence of a corruption of those in charge.

[SamIam]

I blame both Boehner and the Tea Party idiots. Boehner is the leader of the House Republicans. All he had to do is tell them we are voting on this bill NOW. You know, lead already. Instead, he hides behind the skirts of this minority group and whines, "The Tea Party made me do it!" Pfffft!

Agree with Glatt's comments.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

The legislators typically dick around until the last minute, until the pressure is really on and they then make a last minute deal. I don't approve of that governing style, but it's the way it has been forever. What's different now, is that they are dicking around until the last minute, they make a deal, and then the Tea Party spoils it and now they have mostly all gone home for the holidays while the middle class gets to face their unemployment benefits being stopped and their paychecks being cut. Merry fucking Christmas, America. Brought to you by the Tea Party.
Attachment 36107

Don't you love how they paid for it?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

why?
We all know it's the relatively new Tea Party representatives. This was a bipartisan deal, passed overwhelmingly in the Senate. And the tools in the Tea Party are the spoilers. They shot it down and offered nothing in return. It's very ironic to me that the Tea Party is the group behind the coming tax increases. It's exactly the opposite of what they say they are about.

No really true. They offered a package already that passed the House. They just rejected the Senate package, not the same as, "shot it down and offered nothing in return."

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Don't you love how they paid for it?

The Senate's two-month version continues the payroll tax and jobless benefits at this year's levels and costs $33 billion. The bargainers agreed to pay for that by raising fees people pay for new mortgages or refinancing insured by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-backed mortgage companies. For a $200,000 mortgage, the fee increase would raise a borrower's cost about $17 a month.

BFD. Why are you weeping crocodile tears over THAT?

[classicman]

The bargainers agreed to pay for that by raising fees people pay for new mortgages

That will surely help the housing market.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by SamIam

The Senate's two-month version continues the payroll tax and jobless benefits at this year's levels and costs $33 billion. The bargainers agreed to pay for that by raising fees people pay for new mortgages or refinancing insured by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-backed mortgage companies. For a $200,000 mortgage, the fee increase would raise a borrower's cost about $17 a month.

BFD. Why are you weeping crocodile tears over THAT?

Nope, but where is the whine about taxing the middle class? The problem that I have with it is 1) it is a tax on a system that is already broken and is financially supported with taxpayer dollars and bailouts and 2) it sets a bad precedent to tax a narrow part of a semi-private business to fund general taxation, slippery slope. The financial pain is minimal. But the whole deal only does what Obama and the Dems have done repeatedly, kick the can down the calendar and deal with it another day or in the case of Obamacare, kick the tax and enactment of the majority of the law down the lane and make someone else deal with his mess. If they wanted to really deal with it they should have taken the Senate plan and added a 1 year extension to it. The bottom line the payroll tax is just another income tax that goes to the general fund and is not something special, they should do away with it.