tw & me

[Dagney]

Originally Posted by tw

What day did the military finally get its marching orders? Thursday. This from the White House. The Lincoln was on scene two days later. The Marines finally arrived today. Why? George Jr finally made a decision last Thursday. For five days, nothing was dispatched. Timeline provides damning facts - dude.

That's funny, there were troops en route Sunday, on the ground Monday.

And I'm not a dude. But try pulling yer head outcherass....'dude'.

[Dagney]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I have heard that India turned down help from the US Military. They only want civilian aid. I can't verify it, though.

You're right Bruce...and until last week, they turned down ALL outside aid.

[Undertoad]

Certainly. Your exact quote was "George Jr sat on his righteous ass - did nothing - for 5 days as people were dying." My link was a press conference held on day three which showed that he had done something on day two... announcing the creation of the "regional core group" of the US, Australia, Japan and India for the mobilization, on the basis of diplomatic work done on day two. And all of that is less than four hours old and is present in this very thread.

So, why your inaccuracy?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Certainly. Your exact quote was "George Jr sat on his righteous ass - did nothing - for 5 days as people were dying." My link was a press conference held on day three which showed that he had done something on day two... announcing the creation of the "regional core group" of the US, Australia, Japan and India for the mobilization, on the basis of diplomatic work done on day two. And all of that is less than four hours old and is present in this very thread.

Action, my friend. Where is the action? When did he authorize any significant action? George Jr did not for five days.

In the meantime, that coalition which I understood to be Japan, Australia, the US, and China was later disbanded because the UN could do a better job. In the meantime, what action did that coalition accomplish? Action - like stock the USS Kitty Hawk with supplies and helicopters. Like dispatch C-17s with so many single pallets of emergency aid for remote villages? Where was the action for 5 days while people were dying? Action like in get satellite pictures to the Indonesian Interior minister. Like ask the president of Sri Lanka what she needs on day one and get it to her.

You cite a coalition that I understood broke up because it was unworkable. What action resulted from that coalition?

[Undertoad]

On the same day as that conference, the Pentagon rolled out the biggest military relief project in history. Why your inaccuracy?

In the meantime, here's what the Financial Times says about the UN's response.

The UN is being criticised for its failure to organise dozens of aid groups in and around Banda Aceh more than a week and a half after the tsunami hit the region, forcing some of them to bypass the international body and take action into their own hands to ensure aid reaches areas with the most urgent needs.

"If we wait for the UN to tell us what to do, we wouldn't do anything," said Abdul Hadi bin e Rashid, first admiral of the Malaysian navy at the country's operations tent at Banda Aceh airport.

"There are people who are hungry and angry. Why wait? So we just do it."

There's your "action" my friend.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

There's your "action" my friend.

Where does it say anything about major US action on or before Thursday - five days after the Tsunami?

UN 'failing to co-ordinate relief efforts' on 7 Jan 2005.
The UN is being criticised for its failure to organise dozens of aid groups in and around Banda Aceh more than a week and a half after the tsunami hit the region...

The article also complains how aid was held up on Wednesday because Powell arrived for a visit. Nowhere does it say anything about the size of Pentagon aid let alone say when the Pentagon finally got started. Nowhere does it say "Pentagon rolled out the biggest military relief project in history".

It was a famous commerical - "Where's the Beef?" No significant action occurred for five days while George Jr thought about making a decision. Maybe he could not contact Cheney for five days?

The Pentagon probably has rolled its biggest relief project in history - after George Jr stopped stifling the Pentagon for five days. Aid that should have been flowing on Sunday could not move because a lovable George Jr took five days to make a decision. Does the name Dan Quayle sound familiar?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Dagney

That's funny, there were troops en route Sunday, on the ground Monday.

Care to first put some numbers to those troops? Where is this massive aid? What units? What troops? Where are the numbers? Good luck citing a major troop deployment for five days - dude.

[Undertoad]

This Telegraph article summarizes the tensions between the US and UN

Talking points on both sides in that article, but it's clear one side wants to act and one side wants to talk about acting. Guess which side is which.

At the same time, US officials were briefing journalists about the lack of a UN presence at the airport in Banda Aceh, the capital of the province.

"Look around and see who's present, and you will also see who's missing," said one. "I think you can read between the lines.

"They [the UN] have their compound in town, their cars, but are they getting food out? Are they setting up clinics?"

[Dagney]

Originally Posted by tw

Care to first put some numbers to those troops? Where is this massive aid? What units? What troops? Where are the numbers? Good luck citing a major troop deployment for five days - dude.

I don't recall stating massive...I said they were there...in response to your insistance that no one was there for 5 days.

Dude.

Until you respond and tell me what YOU personally have done, I'm just going to ignore your drivel for what it is.

[OnyxCougar]

He won't answer that. Nor will he answer if he has ever been part of a relief effort, wither in the air or on the ground co-ordinating. Nor will he answer why Lookout is somehow responsible for GWB's actions. (I still can't figure that one out.) Nor will he apologize for his libel.

Because if he did, it just might prove he's talking directly out of his ass.

[Dagney]

That's pretty much what I figured, which is why I decided to just stop trying to be sensible.

Not enough hours in my day for the drama.

[Beestie]

I think tw has a secret man-crush on W.

[Dagney]

Ohhhh...so HE's the 'man-date' eh?

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Dagney

Ohhhh...so HE's the 'man-date' eh?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Dagney

That's pretty much what I figured, which is why I decided to just stop trying to be sensible.

Where were you sensible on this issue? Where is serious aid to Boxer Day Tsunami victims by the US in those first five days? I have put up that challenge repeatedly. No one has yet cited a major American attempt to provide aid in those first five days. Nothing moved for five days - until George Jr finally decided - due to world wide condemnation - that a disaster had occurred.

Once George Jr made a decision, then massive aid started moving. It was always there waiting to be deployed. Within two days of being ordered into action, the USS Lincoln was on scene. Day after George Jr finally ordered a US government response, only then did a Marine reactionary force respond. On the day after George Jr finally made a decision, a convoy of ships with massive supplies left from Guam. These are all responses that sat stifled because the mental midget president could not make a decision.

That fact remains completely unchallenged by Dagney. Dagney, if you are going to make a logical post, you must challenge the timeline. Where is this massive US response to a disaster in the first five days? Tens of thousands of lives probably could have been saved it something had arrived in the first three days. What did George Jr do? As UT demonstrates - he finally got on the phone on day three. That is 'moral' leadership - to let victims die?

Please learn to post without your emotional outbursts. I can understand your problem. You have feelings that are not supported by any facts. Your only alternative is to attack the messenger. That does not make your case.

You want to prove me wrong? Then provide facts. Show me where the thousands of US Government employees were moving to save lived in the first five days of the disaster. Show me where this president demonstrated leadership for five days? You cannot. Was he waiting for Cheney to tell him what to do? It does explain five days of indecision.