Who can tell me sth about the American Dream

Originally Posted by echo

oh.my God.I just want to learn sth more about the American Dream cause I am not an American ,and I often met this word when I read books on American culture or background.I didn't expect to bring about a debate or argument among you on such a topic.Anyway,thank you all very much,I like the atmosphere here

Hey, no problem. This group will debate anything at the drop of a hat. I imagine it must have been something of a surprise for a new comer, though. We all thought you were just some school kid trying to get us to write a homework assignment for him. Stick around. You should read us go at it when we REALLY get worked up.

[Catwoman]

The crucial paradox of the American Dream is that it is relative.

One person may see a nice riverside cottage with pigs and chickens as their Dream.
The next may see a three story Malibu mansion with a wife and six girlfriends as theirs.

The point is, you will never achieve it for as long as you possess the mentality of achievement. Let me tell you something. Your achievements mean nothing, because one day, you're going to die. Your cars and your clothes and your millions mean nothing.

I hope you realise this before you go chasing a dream that can never be caught. It keeps you working hard. That's why it was created. So go back to your job and work hard, earn some money, live your life. But don't do it for yourself in the sense that it will add to your accumulation of experience/power/wealth/knowledge. Do it because you need money to eat and to feed your family.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by marichiko

My question to you is what makes you think that the grunt worker of the past was delirious with joy at the beginning of every new 10 hour work day? Ever read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair?

I don't, mari, that's my whole point. That was the dichotomy that garnet seemed to be espousing. I think all grunt workers of all eras are sometimes unsatisfied with their jobs, but I believe that both then and today they have the opportunity to make a better life for themselves if they want to take it. I don't believe the American Dream is dead.

Echo, the main idea behind the American Dream is that everyone has an opportunity to succeed, regardless of who their parents were or how little they started out with.

[lookout123]

clodfobble has summarized it all very well.

[xoxoxoBruce]

National health care?
Most health care is required because of our own stupidity not some plague. Most of the people in the hospital were not blindsided by a disease out of the blue, but stupid accidents and in many cases preventable conditions. The people that Brianna mentioned, with roaches and crap all over the house, will probably get sick, eventually. Same for the germaphobics that try to sterilize their world. Don't force me to bear the burden of your foolish choices.

The one who is robbing you blind is the corporation with its off shore banking practices, its tax dodges that it got via its very own paid congressman, and the jobs it outsourced away from your community and off to some third world country.

We have a strong work ethic, we go to church and school, and we are by and by large honest. The people of this country have been decieved into believing that their fellow Americans are the enemy. Nothing could be further from the truth and yet, nothing else could better serve to further the ends of those few at the top who do not cry "More", but merely seize it from our unresisting hands instead.

These robber barons are robbing you blind? STOP DOING BUSINESS WITH THEM!!
You piss and moan about how they make everything overseas, but you keep buying the stuff. By “you” I mean everybody.
If you’re not part of the solution, your part of the problem.
They do this because you let them, but you’re so damned wrapped up in buying more shit you don’t need and will be paying the trash man to haul away shortly, you don’t see what you’re doing to the future of this country.

I’m not talking about someday, I’m talking about the next 10 years, 5 years, it’s already started and YOU are the only one that can turn this around.
YOU can convince them in the marketplace, at the interface between the robber baron and yourself.....the cash register.
You don’t have to deprive yourself or your family, just shop smarter. And yes, you can still buy everything you NEED, made right here, with very few exceptions.

The robber barons are like kin folk, slap half of them up side the head and the rest will pay attention.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

These robber barons are robbing you blind? STOP DOING BUSINESS WITH THEM!!
You piss and moan about how they make everything overseas, but you keep buying the stuff. By “you” I mean everybody.
If you’re not part of the solution, your part of the problem.
They do this because you let them, but you’re so damned wrapped up in buying more shit you don’t need and will be paying the trash man to haul away shortly, you don’t see what you’re doing to the future of this country.

I agree with you. But have you tried to go to even places like all-American Wal-Mart and find stuff you need that ISN'T made in China, Bangladesh or Mexico? I'm not someone who's into shopping or having lots of "stuff" just for the sake of it. Yes, you can buy products made only in America if you have copius amounts of time to go track them down. I've tried, and it's not that easy.

[xoxoxoBruce]

All-American WalMart? They're public enemy #1!!!!!!! They have done more to contribute to the decline in America, than all foreign companies combined. They are a bigger boon to China than rice. They've put more Americans out of work than automation.
Read this or this or this or This one to see how they operate.
When you're done, I can give you a hundred more. All-American, feh.

[wolf]

I thought the American Dream had something to do with a House with a White Picket Fence, 2.3 children and a dog.

[Clodfobble]

If I state that I now have difficulties performing things that I once did without even thinking twice about them, this is not "bitching and moaning." It is a statement of fact.

You do not know what I am going through right now, precisely because I choose NOT to bitch and moan about it. You do not know about the therapy I am undergoing. You do not know what I am attempting through voc-rehab and on my own.

Here's the problem, mari: You are clearly able to write these long, well-thought-out responses on a wide variety of topics on this board, and have been doing so for some time. You talk about going camping and other various activities, so you don't seem to be significantly physically constrained in any way. The biggest problem I can recall you talking about is a lack of short-term memory. But all in all, you don't seem to be very disabled to a lot of people on this board.

I'm not trying to belittle your experience or tell you that "it's all in your head," I do believe you were exposed to CO and your brain was affected by it. Perhaps if we met you in person it would be more obvious why you are unable to work. But just reading what you've posted, you clearly seem able to hold a job--probably not a head librarian with a personal secretary, but certainly a job making more than $625 a month plus $140 in food stamps.

I imagine the problem is you would find such work--say, as a receptionist or a grocery store cashier--demeaning, and choose to stay on disability instead. But if you wanted to, I believe you could easily get a job making $7-$8 an hour, probably more. And once you had that job, I believe you could move up from there. But you have to be willing to work hard to improve your situation, and that may mean accepting the fact that no amount of vocational therapy will get you back to where you once were.

[Trilby]

Well said, clodfobble. Mari is also able to drive which requires short term memory and spatial ability--things she says she has difficulty with. Is Mari driving impaired? I don't know, but it seems like it.

[Cyber Wolf]

Can we focus less on Mari and more on the topic? Pleeeeease? With sugar? And caramel? And sprinkles? And whatever else topping you want? Double helping? :p

[lookout123]

the question that began the thread has been answered. you summarized it very well. from there it moved into the assertion that the american dream exists only for comfy middle class folks. most of us disagree with that because as you pointed out the american dream is an idea not a benchmark. money doesn't equal happiness. there are folks who are living their american dream on $25K per year and there are folks who are still scrambling to achieve the dream who make $250K per year. the phrase "american dream" is misleading, it should be "american's dream" - so that everyone could understand it, like much in this country, is about the individual.

[Trilby]

Here are three words written by Brianna: Borderline. Personality. Disorder.

and, folks, it's not me!

Originally Posted by Brianna

Here are three words written by Brianna: Borderline. Personality. Disorder.

and, folks, it's not me!

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

[Trilby]

it was thoughtful. I'm no rookie to these things, you know.