Everything Is Just Peachy

[tw]

Originally Posted by Luce

While I don't disagree with you in principle, in this case, the recession occurred because we let bankers run wild with mortgage bundling.

Those money games made things look better for years. Until the ponzi scheme collapsed. Making a recession almost into another great depression.

Mortgage bundling was only one of many techniques that business school graduates were using to make profits where nothing was being created. SIV, CDOs, and plenty of other vehicles were used. In every case, massive profits were appearing on spread sheets where nothing tangible was created.

In the case of mortgages, they simply bundled many mortgages into a financial instrument. Then declared the financial instrument as another equity - as if it had value like real estate, a factory product, or a bridge. Suddenly a $1 mortgage on a house created many financial instruments that were also called a $1 entity. Another ponzi scheme.

When this house of cards collapsed, suddenly liquidity disappeared. Which explains is why TARP was so successful. It provided liquidity so that companies could still pay their employees, et al.

But the recession was coming anyway. Tax cuts are simply another money game to pump heroin into the economy. And then pay for it massively later. Tax cuts have never made a more robust economy. Only innovaton does that.

Worse, throwing money at innovation can even create less innovation. Just another reason why tax cuts end up paying for more European vacations. That is a better return on investment.

[Griff]

So Biden says he will refuse to testify if called to by the Senate. I want all the assholes to testify not just the Republican assholes. I understand that it's just to distract from Trump's nonsense but I'd like it all out there.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...eachment-trial

[Undertoad]

Tax revenues have fallen now for the past three years.

You might mean, the size of increase fell. Tax revenues have not fallen. Big difference (source)

FY 2020 - $3.64 trillion, budgeted.
FY 2019 - $3.44 trillion, estimated.
FY 2018 - $3.33 trillion.
FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.
FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.
FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.
FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.
FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.
FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion.
FY 2011 - $2.30 trillion.
FY 2010 - $2.16 trillion.
FY 2009 - $2.10 trillion.
FY 2008 - $2.52 trillion.
FY 2007 - $2.57 trillion.
FY 2006 - $2.4 trillion.
FY 2005 - $2.15 trillion.
FY 2004 - $1.88 trillion.
FY 2003 - $1.72 trillion.
FY 2002 - $1.85 trillion.
FY 2001 - $1.99 trillion.
FY 2000 - $2.03 trillion.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Who's paying all the taxes?

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

You might mean, the size of increase fell. Tax revenues have not fallen. Big difference (source)

FY 2020 - $3.64 trillion, budgeted.
FY 2019 - $3.44 trillion, estimated.
FY 2018 - $3.33 trillion.
FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.
FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.
FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.
FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.
FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.
FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion.
FY 2011 - $2.30 trillion.
FY 2010 - $2.16 trillion.
FY 2009 - $2.10 trillion.
FY 2008 - $2.52 trillion.
FY 2007 - $2.57 trillion.
FY 2006 - $2.4 trillion.
FY 2005 - $2.15 trillion.
FY 2004 - $1.88 trillion.
FY 2003 - $1.72 trillion.
FY 2002 - $1.85 trillion.
FY 2001 - $1.99 trillion.
FY 2000 - $2.03 trillion.

If we're a trillion in the hole each year, what's 200 billion?

[sexobon]

The Senate should offer Biden immunity to testify. That way if he still won't testify, It'll look like a cover-up for his son. The next step then, is for the President to grant Biden a pre-emptive pardon (whether he's been charged or not, whether he wants it or not) as the coup de grâce.

[Luce]

Originally Posted by sexobon

The Senate should offer Biden immunity to testify. That way if he still won't testify, It'll look like a cover-up for his son. The next step then, is for the President to grant Biden a pre-emptive pardon (whether he's been charged or not, whether he wants it or not) as the coup de grâce.

You have to accept a pardon, because accepting a pardon is an admission of wrongdoing.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I never thought about that, do you have a choice in accepting a pardon or not?
Maybe we don't know because nobody ever has tried to decline a pardon.
If you can't decline, can you appeal it?

[Luce]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I never thought about that, do you have a choice in accepting a pardon or not?
Maybe we don't know because nobody ever has tried to decline a pardon.
If you can't decline, can you appeal it?

Pardons can and have been refused.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wilson

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's interesting, death for robbing the mail. And he refused the pardon, I wonder why.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Luce

You have to accept a pardon, because accepting a pardon is an admission of wrongdoing.

Not accepting a pardon doesn't stop the President from granting one whether the person wants it or not. It only stops it from taking effect. A pardon "carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it." That would be the political value of it whether or not it's accepted.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by sexobon

Not accepting a pardon doesn't stop the President from granting one whether the person wants it or not. It only stops it from taking effect.

If you're in jail and a pardon is issued will they let you stay in jail. Doubt it.
Can you stop your record being expunged? Probably not.
So I'd think it does go into effect like it or not. Of course the damage is done politically so it's really a moot point.


And believe me, I'll take the pardon in a heartbeat.

[sexobon]

It has to be accepted and registered with the courts to remain in effect.

Records are not expunged because of a pardon.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Oh ok, I didn't know the details. With all the judges Trump has put on the bench it's not likely his wishes wouldn't be carried out regardless though.

[sexobon]

It was a conflict of interest to have the son of a US official with influence over the situation sitting on the board and being paid by THEM, not US. He was THEIR mouth, NOT OUR ears. It's not hard for any adult to discern whose interests the guy who was kicked out of the US Navy Reserve*, after testing positive for cocaine, was serving and who he was willing to use to get his paycheck (his father administered his commissioning oath).

*He had to get an age waiver and a previous drug offense waiver to get in.