Have we become used to or immune to mass shootings?

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by sexobon

Those are subject to oversight, that mental health rule was not. This country has a history of insufficient oversight in the management of those with mental illness.

So, what was the mental illness for which Cruz should have had his Constitutional rights taken away preemptively?

But there was oversight, via committee. Just like there is oversight in the committee of epilepsy specialists that currently says whether I'm legally allowed to have a drivers license. And yes, I'm fine with people with a diagnosis of autism being preemptively put on a no-guns list. They can appeal.

FYI, school districts are not legally allowed to make diagnoses now, nor will it ever be in their best interest to do so: a kid with a diagnosis is eligible for services the schools don't want to pay for. They go out of their way to keep a diagnosis off the school record, even when the parent has one from a doctor.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

But there was oversight, via committee. Just like there is oversight in the committee of epilepsy specialists that currently says whether I'm legally allowed to have a drivers license. ..

Apples and oranges, a right vs a privilege. I've already covered the difference in legitimate oversight between the two and your circular argument is not favorably considered.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

... And yes, I'm fine with people with a diagnosis of autism being preemptively put on a no-guns list. They can appeal. ...

It's dandy, that you're fine with this. It's swell that others are not. We'll see at the polls just like last time.

Sweet dreams.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Here's an excellent thread on mass shootings.

[Undertoad]

It is excellent.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Here's part of the problem, when you're childish and are only driven by emotion you see ordinary hunting rifle, to scary looking military assault rifle people killer.
But the fact is every one of them is a bolt action Remington 700 rifle.
Every. Fucking. One.

[Clodfobble]

Baloney. The problem is not that the childish and emotional see something like that on the store wall and get scared. The problem is that real assault rifles are in circulation, and being used to slaughter people. When the actual murder machines are banned, then we can talk about what to do with the little ol' guns that never hurt a fly.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Real assault rifles are very illegal and extremely expensive. None of the examples above are assault rifles, but the perception of the masses reacting to the appearance means there can be no dialog.

[glatt]

The masses are afraid of the scary looking ones, and the nut jobs are attracted to the scary looking ones. The scary looking ones are only marketed because they have an emotional impact on everyone. Good guy or bad. If you get rid of the scary looking ones, will the bad guys want to get a farmer's wood stock gun to do their terrorizing?

[tw]

This was discussed in detail here about 15 years ago (maybe longer). Facts stated then are now well proven. As number of guns increases, violent gun deaths increase massively. It has been a fact all over the world for hundreds of years. Assault weapons have increased massively in the past twenty years. We have not yet even begun to accept reality. We have seen exactly what was predicted here 15 years ago. And still some continue to deny - emotionally.

How ironic. Since owning and carrying a bigger gun does change a person's emotions. They become more entitled. And suddenly feel righteous authority. A gun changes a person's attitude.

How many guns were available in the old west? Lies (myths, fiction, hearsay, speculation, westerns) assumed everyone out west had and needed a gun. Reality. Research confirms that among maybe 15 wagons might be only three or four guns. As was so obvious even 15 years ago, a gun cost about one or two year's wages. Back then, 'automobile type' finance plan did not exist. Pioneers had to plan in advance who would first fire so that the few others with guns still had a loaded gun.

Only two places made all guns - Harper's Ferry and Springfield MA.. Guns were never the magic tool that we have all been told must have existed. Myths and fears of today did not exist back then. The west was not as dangerous as the emotional are told to believe today.

Same fears and emotions now justify assault weapons for protection. Include what we have all learned from the news. Defense with a handgun is almost useless against assault weapons with large clips. Virtually impossible. As was demonstrated by an armed guard in Columbine and in Kentucky. As demonstrated by hundreds of police trying to stop two bank robbers in LA. As demonstrated by the actions of Sheriff deputies recently in FL.

Only the emotional and ignorant think fortifying schools will help. We know it is stupid because the Donald also recommended it. Fortifying only works when same hardware fortifies every mall, post office, every airport and train station, etc. Did extremists forget to mention that? Of course. This problem is only created by too many weapons sold to wackos who need high velocity projectiles fed by large clips. Since that makes them even feel better. Projectiles that only have one purpose - murder on a mass scale. Guns that make even armed deputies think twice before confronting them.

Did an LA bank robbery not yet make that obvious to everyone? So how many still did not learn that - instead listen to a wacko president promoting lies and more gun sales. Assault rifles mean even police can only be victims - not be protection.

Instead of teaching kids, we must put diminishing school budgets (diminishing thanks to the same extremists who need military and more civilians with guns) into fortifying schools. Only armed resource officer that can provide any protection must constantly wear helmets, body armour, and M-15 assault rifles with large clips. We must have SWAT in every school - according to extremists. And stop putting money into education. Since education only creates moderates.

The NRA is a lobby to increase gun manufacturer profits. Of course the NRA advocated more guns, more body armor, and education money diverted into highly armed guards at every school. That increases profits. We must leave shoppers, drivers, homes, and commuters unprotected so that more assault weapons can be sold.

Only one problem exists. We have hundreds of thousands of assault rifles everywhere in America. Even an old west was never as dangerous as the NRA now wants America to be. We cannot even do research into gun violence since that will also reduce sales and profits. Research into gun violence was banned because of what the early research discovered.

NRA was never about protecting people. Their myth is to increase profits. NRA even got customers to pay (dues) for promoting those companies. Purpose of the NRA is - profits. Promoting lies and fears - and more assault rifles - means everyone must now waste money on guns. Less educated kids means more extremists who can be manipulate by NRA propaganda.

If assault rifles are needed, then so are M-60 grenade launchers and 155 mm howitzers. Both are needed for the exact same reason (myth). Profits.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

This was discussed in detail here about 15 years ago (maybe longer). Facts stated then are now well proven. As number of guns increases, violent gun deaths increase massively. It has been a fact all over the world for hundreds of years. Assault weapons have increased massively in the past twenty years.

Whoops, lost your credibility right there.

[Glinda]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Whoops, lost your credibility right there.

In point of fact, we don't have any idea how many assault-type weapons are out there,

Nobody knows exactly how many assault rifles exist in the U.S. – by design

but I think it's a safe bet to say there are many more today than there were 20 years ago.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Glinda

In point of fact, we don't have any idea how many assault-type weapons are out there,

Nobody knows exactly how many assault rifles exist in the U.S. – by design

but I think it's a safe bet to say there are many more today than there were 20 years ago.

Don't put any of your hard earned money on that bet... you'd lose it.
Assault rifles and any other automatic weapons (read machine guns), have been illegal since the '30s, without a government license that involves a background check and costs hundreds of dollars a year.

I'm totally on board with regulation, total ban on automatics and background checks at gun shows. But berating the AR-15 or any other rifle that looks scary is tilting at windmills. Even if successful would do no good.

[tw]

Anything that fires NATO rounds and with high velocity is an assault weapon. Anything that can fire bullets through cars to shoot police officers is an assault weapon. Anything that drives off arm guards while massacring students is an assault weapon. Anything with large clips is only for mass murder of people. Those things are not illegal - despite denials. In Florida, a kid, who cannot drink alcohol and not buy a 9 mm pistol, can also legally buy an assault weapon. And he did - legally.

Worse, so many adults knew and considered it acceptable. How extremist are so many adults?

What has massively increased in numbers in the past 20 years? Assault weapons. Why are school, malls, roads, and movie theaters more dangerous? What changed? A massive and recent increase in assault weapons in civilian hands.

That (and not illegal immigrants) are the problem. Who suffers because wackos love the 'big dic' power provided by a gun with large clips and high velocity ammunition? Moderates. People who were once safe before all this hardware was made freely available.

Just up the street, a church usher shot in the head a parishioner who was causing a disturbance. He felt that shooting was justified even after convicted in court. Others noted the problem. He was entitled so he needed a gun. Another example of how a mind is changed by a gun. How more entitled would he have been with an assault rifle? So we need him to protect us all - even from noisy parishioners.

The assault weapons ban in 1994 expired ten years later. The day after Sandy Hook, the gun show selling assault weapons (without any background check required) had its largest even attendance. Despite denials, assault weapons are selling in record numbers in the country that apparently loves to use their student for target practice.

The death rate due to gun shooting in schools is about every three days. Attempted massacres in 2018 has been one per week. But this is because schools, that were safe 30 years ago, are the reason for all these mass shootings - according a president and other extremists.

[tw]

Clearly more assault weapons do not explain this:

[sexobon]

Worst case of hoplophobia I ever saw.