JUDGE: PRES. BUSH'S WIRETAP PROGRAM VIOLATES CONSTITUTION & MUST STOP

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Spex, a special prosecutor was appointed to specifically to look into your theory, and it didn't even turn up any blowjobs.

Isn't Scooter Libby facing charges? He probably worked alone in the same way Liddy and North did.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Never mind that Amb. Wilson is still with us, and untortured (he looked really good in that Armani at the Correspondents Dinner).

I said as much. He wasn't disappeared, but he certainly was punished.

[Happy Monkey]

The FISA court was created because these powers were being misused. And Nixon was positively squeamish about using presidential power, compared to Bush.

[Undertoad]

Yeah, but Libby's charge is like Clinton's: perjury in a trial with a not-guilty verdict. Of course, in Clinton's case, it was more like let's ask him questions until we find something he lies about and then charge him w/ perjury. But anyway, it's a smaller deal than the original charge.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

And Nixon was positively squeamish about using presidential power, compared to Bush.

That statement is another one of those "beleving your own hyperbole" deals. I don't recall any particular sqeamishness on Nixon's part. And there was only one "Woodstein" in those days, rather than the vast legions of wannabees we have today...

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

I don't recall any particular sqeamishness on Nixon's part.

I didn't say there was.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I didn't say there was.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

And Nixon was positively squeamish about using presidential power...

Hypnotized by one's own hyperbole, as I said.

[Happy Monkey]

Creative editing, there.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Creative editing, there.

You're just so freaking anxious to get your jollies and confirm your Good Liberal cred by slamming Bush that truth and perspective have become unimportant.

The fact is that three decades later, Bush is operating in a completely different environment: everything he does is under an intense level of hostile scrutiny, and it stands up extremely well compared to what Tricky Dick got away with without even thinking about it much (up to the point he was impeached, anyway) mostly because nobody was looking, or knew how to. Today every journo student learns about Woodstein at his prof's knee, and throughoiut his career longs to earn his Pulitzer breaking the Big Story that topples the Evil and Mighty.

I remeber the Nixon administration quite well, and nobody cheered louder than I did when he went down. But your comparison is either hysterical or woefully uninformed.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Today every journo student learns about Woodstein at his prof's knee, and throughoiut his career longs to earn his Pulitzer breaking the Big Story that topples the Evil and Mighty.

I'd call that a good thing.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I'd call that a good thing.

It is, as long as they're not so hypnotized by it that it leads them away from the truth.

Originally Posted by Theodore Roosevelt

In Bunyan's "Pilgrim's Progress" you may recall the description of the Man with the Muck-rake, the man who could look no way but downward, with the muck-rake in his hand; who was offered a celestial crown for his muck-rake, but who would neither look up nor regard the crown he was offered, but continued to rake to himself the filth of the floor.

In "Pilgrim's Progress" the Man with the Muckrake is set forth as the example of him whose vision is fixed on carnal instead of on spiritual things. Yet he also typifies the man who in this life consistently refuses to see aught that is lofty, and fixes his eyes with solemn intentness only on that which is vile and debasing. Now, it is very necessary that we should not flinch from seeing what is vile and debasing. There is filth on the floor, and it must be scraped up with the muck-rake; and there are times and places where this service is the most needed of all the services that can be performed. But the man who never does anything else, who never thinks or speaks or writes, save of his feats with the muck-rake, speedily becomes, not a help to society, not an incitement to good, but one of the most potent forces for evil.

There are, in the body politic, economic and social, many and grave evils, and there is urgent necessity for the sternest war upon them. There should be relentless exposure of and attack upon every evil man whether politician or business man, every evil practice, whether in politics, in business, or in social life. I hail as a benefactor every writer or speaker, every man who, on the platform, or in book, magazine, or newspaper, with merciless severity makes such attack, provided always that he in his turn remembers that the attack is of use only if it is absolutely truthful... The men with the muck-rakes are often indispensable to the well-being of society; but only if they know when to stop raking the muck, and to look upward to the celestial crown above them, to the crown of worthy endeavor.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

The fact is that three decades later, Bush is operating in a completely different environment:

A lapdog Congress.

everything he does is under an intense level of hostile scrutiny,

Not from anyone who can do anything about it. Woodward and Bernstein wouldn't have gotten anywhere if Congress had steadfastly refused to set up the Watergate Committee, no matter how much press they got. Or if they'd reluctantly made the committee, but refused to allow it to interview administration officials. Or if they were allowed to interview officials, but not alone and not under oath. Or if official government investigators were denied security clearances, and were therefore forced to terminate the investigation.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Woodward and Bernstein wouldn't have gotten anywhere if Congress had steadfastly refused to set up the Watergate Committee, no matter how much press they got.

It's not a matter of "how much press they got". It's quality rather than quantity, and the quality has been garbage.

You can play crappy music though a huge amplifier (The Internet, anyone?) but it's still crappy music.

It's just louder.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

... everything he does is under an intense level of hostile scrutiny, and it stands up extremely well compared to what Tricky Dick got away with ...

Ken Starr is investigating?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

It's not a matter of "how much press they got". It's quality rather than quantity, and the quality has been garbage.

OK. Replace "how much" with "what" in my post above, if you like.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

OK. Replace "how much" with "what" in my post above, if you like.

I'll replace it in your post if you replace it in your thinking.