So, what is the difference.... - Page 5

xoxoxoBruce · 07-23-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

oxo, I 've tried kicking Tony's ass, but all I did was stub my toe.

Realistically, onyl the US can reign in Isreal, and Bush not only won't but has implicitely given Israel free reign for the next week or so. How many more kids will be killed in this next week?

That's bullshit, as a matter of fact there's a lot of people in this country that believe it's the other way around.....that Israel is Geppetto.

At least you stubbed your toe, nobody here is getting close to Bush.

Oh, and another thing, you sound like an ass blaming the US for your IRA problems just because the ex-pats and their decendants kicked into the tins in the NY/Boston bars. By that reasoning all black people should hate the Irish because the majority of slave owners here were of Irish decent.

What are you doing for the children that will die next week?

MaggieL · 07-24-2006, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

What are you doing for the children that will die next week?

Blaming it on the Jews, evidently.

Griff · 07-24-2006, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

. By that reasoning all black people should hate the Irish because the majority of slave owners here were of Irish decent.

Scotch Irish not real Irish.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-24-2006, 06:17 AM

What? It doesn't count because they drink top shelf?

I stand corrected.

Trilby · 07-22-2006, 07:57 PM

Why does Jay feel that we American's have any more influence over our leaders than he does? Why is everything on the face of the fuqing Earth the fault of the US? It's so easy to point fingers, isn't it? There are thousands of American's very, very distressed at what is going on--Lebanese AND Jewish children are being killed. Where does the blame lay? WITH THOSE WHO STARTED IT BY KIDNAPPING. Hizbollah. That's where your anger needs to point to.

It's funny how the US is supposed to police the world but NOT police the world, ya know? Like any country does ANYTHING the US asks. HA! What are we to do? Tell Israel, "hey, stop that!" and have them listen to us, just like Iran and NK and USSR all listen to what we say?

Ibby · 07-22-2006, 08:21 PM

Bri, I disagree slightly... The blame doesnt lay with hezbollah. The blame can't be placed on anyone.

you're bombing our houses!
well you took our soldiers!
well you imprisoned our men!
well you are on our land!
well you TOOK the land from us!
well you tried to keep our holy land from us!
well it's our holy land too!
well we were persecuted for a long time!

BOTH sides are to blame. You'd have to go back thousands of years to figure out where this started, but it keeps being a problem because neither side is going to stop until the other one does.

Trilby · 07-22-2006, 08:37 PM

yeah, it's gone on forever and probably always will. However, this Particular session is in response to what hezbollah did.

Ibby · 07-22-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

yeah, it's gone on forever and probably always will. However, this Particular session is in response to what hezbollah did.

But they did that in response to this which israel did in response to that... etc etc etc

Trilby · 07-22-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

But they did that in response to this which israel did in response to that... etc etc etc

That's funny--I thought that Israel was showing some major concessions to the aggrieved parties in that area. Guess not.

Its a shame that the US wasn't in exsistence when it all began...they could lay this one on us, too.

MaggieL · 07-23-2006, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Its a shame that the US wasn't in exsistence when it all began...they could lay this one on us, too.

Why would that stop anyone?

JayMcGee · 07-23-2006, 06:21 PM

stop with the spelling-flames and haire-splitting, maggie. You know full-well my meaning. The US can exercise enormous influence over Israel, and has done so in the past. The fact that it chooses not to do so now is saddening and demeans your great country. Yes, I know it's an Israeli matter, and that Hezbollah are no angels, but that does not justify the slaughter of innocents nor the desrtruction of the infrastructer of a sovereign (and I would point out, a West-friendly) state. The obligation is upon all of us to help stop the violence....... that the state with the most influence is shirking its obligations bodes ill for ultimate peace in that region.....

MaggieL · 07-23-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

The fact that it chooses not to do so now is saddening and demeans your great country.

What, that they're not crafting their foreign policy based on your world view?

I'm shocked. Truly. Your deep knowlege of foreign affairs and insight into human nature deserves the deepest respect. I shall write my Senator within a fortnight.

Undertoad · 07-23-2006, 07:29 PM

That assumes that the best way to end the current violence is through enforced cease-fire. I don't think you've been listening to what Iran/Hisballah has been saying. They have no reason to cease fire. They believe they will win. They also believe that negotiation is weakness.

Israel pulled back to the '67 borders in two places: Gaza and Lebanon. They have now been attacked on specifically those two borders. Why?

You claim to like peace but you want the terrorists to maintain control of the country they have hijacked, with the 10,000 missiles they have built up and the money of oil-rich Islamist fundamentalist dictators with nukes. I don't think this "peace" you have in mind is going to work out. Sure engagement hasn't solved many problems, but disengagement has to be on both sides bucky, especially in this nukular age where the worst case is unthinkable.

9th Engineer · 07-23-2006, 07:37 PM

Tell me Jay, how much influence do you think we'll have after they've stopped fighting and it's still raining rocket in Israel? They would have to be psycho not to fire back when attacked.

JayMcGee · 07-23-2006, 08:02 PM

@UT.....

first. drop the 'bucky' bit..... that alone is enough to set your post as antaganostic and agressive rather than debative.... as moderator/owner, you shoulld know better...

To your other points.....

The possiblilty of a voluntary cease fire is somewhat low, so an enforced one seems the best way to stop the killing of innocents on both sides.... and the US is about the only state that can enforce a cease-fire. That it won't do so is what gives me cause to castigate it. The Lebbonese govt/Hizbollah relationship is analogous to the Eire/IRA realtionship (cheap jibe number one: except that Hizbollah didn't get funded from collection tins in New York bars): the major differnce in policy is that the UK (Israel) did not bomb the crap out of Dublin (Beiruit). At that time, the IRA did not believe in a negotiated settlement. but long years of patience and diplomacy finally prevailled.

And, of course, Hizbollah have no more hi-jacked Lebbenon than the IRA hi-jacked Eire.... And at this point, I would like to point out that the Lebbonese Govt is one of the few pro-Western govts in the region.... we should be doing all we can to support it rather than turing a blind eye to its destruction at the hands of the IDF.

Oh, and yeah, the nuclear thing does worry me...... I see no fail-safe for Israel's nuclear force.

07-24-2006, 06:17 AM	#4
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	What? It doesn't count because they drink top shelf? I stand corrected. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-22-2006, 07:57 PM	#5
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Why does Jay feel that we American's have any more influence over our leaders than he does? Why is everything on the face of the fuqing Earth the fault of the US? It's so easy to point fingers, isn't it? There are thousands of American's very, very distressed at what is going on--Lebanese AND Jewish children are being killed. Where does the blame lay? WITH THOSE WHO STARTED IT BY KIDNAPPING. Hizbollah. That's where your anger needs to point to. It's funny how the US is supposed to police the world but NOT police the world, ya know? Like any country does ANYTHING the US asks. HA! What are we to do? Tell Israel, "hey, stop that!" and have them listen to us, just like Iran and NK and USSR all listen to what we say? __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum Last edited by Trilby; 07-22-2006 at 08:03 PM.

07-22-2006, 08:21 PM	#6
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Bri, I disagree slightly... The blame doesnt lay with hezbollah. The blame can't be placed on anyone. you're bombing our houses! well you took our soldiers! well you imprisoned our men! well you are on our land! well you TOOK the land from us! well you tried to keep our holy land from us! well it's our holy land too! well we were persecuted for a long time! BOTH sides are to blame. You'd have to go back thousands of years to figure out where this started, but it keeps being a problem because neither side is going to stop until the other one does. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

07-22-2006, 08:37 PM	#7
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	yeah, it's gone on forever and probably always will. However, this Particular session is in response to what hezbollah did. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

07-23-2006, 06:21 PM	#11
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	stop with the spelling-flames and haire-splitting, maggie. You know full-well my meaning. The US can exercise enormous influence over Israel, and has done so in the past. The fact that it chooses not to do so now is saddening and demeans your great country. Yes, I know it's an Israeli matter, and that Hezbollah are no angels, but that does not justify the slaughter of innocents nor the desrtruction of the infrastructer of a sovereign (and I would point out, a West-friendly) state. The obligation is upon all of us to help stop the violence....... that the state with the most influence is shirking its obligations bodes ill for ultimate peace in that region..... __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

07-23-2006, 07:29 PM	#13
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	That assumes that the best way to end the current violence is through enforced cease-fire. I don't think you've been listening to what Iran/Hisballah has been saying. They have no reason to cease fire. They believe they will win. They also believe that negotiation is weakness. Israel pulled back to the '67 borders in two places: Gaza and Lebanon. They have now been attacked on specifically those two borders. Why? You claim to like peace but you want the terrorists to maintain control of the country they have hijacked, with the 10,000 missiles they have built up and the money of oil-rich Islamist fundamentalist dictators with nukes. I don't think this "peace" you have in mind is going to work out. Sure engagement hasn't solved many problems, but disengagement has to be on both sides bucky, especially in this nukular age where the worst case is unthinkable.

07-23-2006, 07:37 PM	#14
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Tell me Jay, how much influence do you think we'll have after they've stopped fighting and it's still raining rocket in Israel? They would have to be psycho not to fire back when attacked. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

07-23-2006, 08:02 PM	#15
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	@UT..... first. drop the 'bucky' bit..... that alone is enough to set your post as antaganostic and agressive rather than debative.... as moderator/owner, you shoulld know better... To your other points..... The possiblilty of a voluntary cease fire is somewhat low, so an enforced one seems the best way to stop the killing of innocents on both sides.... and the US is about the only state that can enforce a cease-fire. That it won't do so is what gives me cause to castigate it. The Lebbonese govt/Hizbollah relationship is analogous to the Eire/IRA realtionship (cheap jibe number one: except that Hizbollah didn't get funded from collection tins in New York bars): the major differnce in policy is that the UK (Israel) did not bomb the crap out of Dublin (Beiruit). At that time, the IRA did not believe in a negotiated settlement. but long years of patience and diplomacy finally prevailled. And, of course, Hizbollah have no more hi-jacked Lebbenon than the IRA hi-jacked Eire.... And at this point, I would like to point out that the Lebbonese Govt is one of the few pro-Western govts in the region.... we should be doing all we can to support it rather than turing a blind eye to its destruction at the hands of the IDF. Oh, and yeah, the nuclear thing does worry me...... I see no fail-safe for Israel's nuclear force. __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

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