2/9: Terrible MSNBC gaffe

[jeni]

because rather than make personal attacks towards others, i would try to stay somewhat on topic.

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by jeni
i think maybe david just doesn't want to waste his time trying to explain his points repeatedly to people who don't understand, or aren't willing to at least acknowledge those points...

Not every collection of words in a row will be recognized by everyone as constituting "points" deserving of agreement, recognition or even acknowlegement. Simply because the *speaker* feels they have a point doesn't gaurantee either rebuttal or acknowlegement from the person addressed, or anybody else on-thread, for that matter.

When you find yourself explaining a point repeatedly, there are a number of possible reasons other than your audience "doesn't understand" or "isn't willing to acknowlege" you. You also may not in fact *have* a cogent point, or you may have one but be failing to convey it effectively. That's just the way things work in a forum like this. Certainly jumping up and down (even typographically) spouting profanity is unlikely to to be considered a clever forensic maneuver by most readers. Profanity *can* sometimes be used effectively for emphasis. Used constantly, it loses that effectiveness, and becomes simply abuse. (And "I've killfiled you, neener, neener, neener" is another move likely to be seen as a tantrum rather than effective argumentation.)

Originally posted by Xugumad
It's actually very funny to read his previous posting; not only does he completely ignore what I said (in order to resort to some more personal attacks), but he misattributes who he told to 'Fuck off'. I guess it's easy to forget who you've insulted and then added to your ignore list.

You're right, I did get mixed up. Refer to this post

Really, it's the oldest trick in the troll book from the BBS/Usenet days: insult someone, then killfile them and tell everybody in a smug tone of voice how you have ignored them, and how you've seized the moral high ground.

That's great. I also see it as (dun dun dun!) <b>wholly fucking irrelevant</b> (ain't that a humdinger!), since this isn't a BBS or Usenet, I wasn't trolling until my previous post, and I have <b>never</b> claimed to have seized the moral ground. I just happen to really, really really Not Like You.

Then there's of course the 'amusing' crack about having been abused by my father. The sheer stupidity of that comment aside, I guess he doesn't live in a country where <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,224326-412,00.shtml"> lynch mobs</a> run through the streets murdering pedophiles.

I wasn't trying to be amusing, so I'm glad I've succeeded. Rather, I find it amazing how you have followed my posting so closely yet seemingly cannot understand the 'ad hominem attacks' on Maggie, which she has made a HISTORY of dishing out - typographical errors beware! You obviously are not interested in seeing the truth, so I won't bother wasting my energy to reply to you. This post, by the way, is to clear it up for everyone else.

His points were also entertaining in themselves: he will ignore you because he agrees with what you say yet finds you frustrating to argue with. Which is why he threw a profanity-laden fit over in the thread regarding drugs and alcohol.

No. I will ignore Maggie (was actually considering taking her off the ignore list since I've calmed down) because she pushes my buttons. I don't need that every day. Joann is quite irritating enough, thank you very much.

As for the profanity thing, I think Jen addressed it well enough. Words are used to express ideas. Some words have stronger emotional impact than others. Hence, their usage. If you don't like it, you could always get Surf Watch.

It's just sad to see the mental maturity of a twelve-year old express itself in such aggression. Oh well. I guess there's always his 'weblog' where he posts about how pimped his many computers are, and how ordering pizza is great, and how he likes his ass to be clean. (no, really)

Who is this targeted at? We already know that Maggie has read it. Ah, yes. I see. Ad hominem attacks.

If you don't like the weblog, don't read it. Seriously. Please, don't. It's not worth your time.

Luckily, he can't read any of this, though, otherwise I'd ask him why he again completely ignored the refutation of his points, just to go on about Maggie, and about how long my postings are.

Unfortunately, I said "I think I'll..." and as we all know, thinking and doing are two separate things. I thought I'd read your reply first. I now realize this to have been a waste of my time, but no matter.

I didn't ignore the refutation of my points - there was no refutation and there were no "points". There was a point, which is apparently completely lost on you. That point, for the interested, is that Maggie has repeatedly engaged in ad hominem attacks on those she's arguing with, yet when confronted with this, goes "oh well". She then, of course, preaches about how our words here are what everyone else has to judge us by. The level of hypocrisy I see in this is astounding, and I know for a fact that I'm not alone. No matter. You choose to see that as invalid simply because I use "swear words" or because I myself have resorted to an ad hominem attack on someone who has a history of ad hominem attacks. It doesn't occur to you that I'm perfectly aware of what I'm doing. That's okay. But that's why it happened.

I'm not going to respond to the last part of your comment, as it's filled with personal attacks and I'd have to call you a fuckface, but I won't do that, because I'm not responding to that part.

[Edit - Fixing typos is fun! s/I've/I'd/]

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by dhamsaic

I also see it as (dun dun dun!) wholly fucking irrelevant (ain't that a humdinger!), since this isn't a BBS or Usenet.

Yeah, it shows . Although the Cellar indeed used to be a BBS and had a USENET feed.

I liked it better then. People were making a significant expenditure of effort to be here then, and tended to treat the Commons a little better; applying a bit more thought and care to their postings here then than they do now. With a connect time limit (yes, there used to be one), there was less blather and mouth-foaming and more thoughtful content.

[jaguar]

*and the antagonistic, arrogant, holier than thou bitch of the year award goes to....MaggieL!!!*
welcome to a second ignorelist, your petty personal attacks were spoiling otherwise pleasent threads.

Jaguar, since you misspelled "pleasant", your point is non-existant. Please go do your homework. :P

[jaguar]

I've done 6 hours today, and put in on average, 13 hours a day (of schoolwork) this week - bite me.

[Undertoad]

You folks are amusing to me.

When people take me on directly, with ad hominem attacks, I merely assume they are right and suffer silently with depression as their words sink into my soul, burning holes in it.

The wife is a lurker here, you know, but she won't sign up cos she knows - and she is right - that she faces the possibility of getting whomped on with the first mistake. No mistake is needed in some places, but here we are at least that forgiving.

It scarecely matters if each and every discussion degenerates into an unappealing flame-fest. Nobody wants to sign up for that. If you feel you are "fighting" for a group that is appealing to you personally, you probably won't get it in the end.

Yknow, I don't do anything to encourage or discourage a particular kind of chatter; I don't kick people off, or delete posts, or edit people, or have lists of elites, etc. (Other than the three rules.) So appealing to me won't help. You people just have to work it out amongst yourselves.

I would suggest, for starters, that you take a step back and acknowledge how amazing it is that we get to share anything at all. How somehow we've been given something amazing and wondrous - the chance to share a few experiences with each other, across miles and miles of distance. It's just a few minutes of sharing every day. You want to squander that with pettiness and squabbling? Be my guest, but you're only hurting yourselves.

I don't. Which is why I came to a decision last night.

I will ignore the people that bring out the worst in me, and hope that those whom I bring out the worst in will ignore me.

It was either that or quitting the Cellar, and I was about ten seconds away from writing an email explaining my decision and just quietly slipping off the Cellar. But a post from jaguar, of all people, made me decide to stay.

Time is too precious to waste arguing. The great things about the Cellar are too precious to be overshadowed by the arguing.