Why Can't Men Say the Things We Women Need to Hear?

[MsSparkie]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

What did he want?

1st and foremost: A slave. Someone to worship him. Told me to bleach my hair blonde because he loves blondes. Said my job would be to deal with his ex to get custody visits with his young daughter. Told me what my jobs would be there if I moved to S.D. to be his wife.

Planned our wedding at Sturgis this summer. He was controlling, bossy, demanding, laconic, moody, withdrawn....with an initial few weeks of being "so nice and loving" that sucked me in.

I said whoa.....we don't even like each other right now....scrap the wedding.
I said if we can't fix things....it's no good.

He never forgave me and never tried to fix it. He was just mad. He just tormented me from that day on. He is hard as nails.

He wanted love but didn't know how to get it, except for the first few weeks. Like Golden said....WTF? How can they turn it on and off like a faucet? Why do they feel once they have you hooked it's a whole new ball game?

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......

That's the way the cookie crumbles.....unfortunately.

We still love each other in our dysfunctional way. I wish we were doing the Sturgis thing in some ways....there is a Dom/sub thing going on which I love.
But he pushed the envelope too far. It should be only like that in the bedroom. He wanted to rule over me all the time.

He told me it's partly due to his German heritage....and his sister agrees and is the same. LOL

He is a farmer, builds motorcycles, has a hunting lodge. I got my hunting licences for birds, small game and big game many years ago but had babies and didn't go. He is the idea man for business, I do accounting. He is Dom, I'm a sub.
But a fiesty sub.

We seemed like a good fit. But he didn't play the game correctly.

I was willing. He pushed too far.

He will never call me. He is too stubborn and mean. If I call him he will torture me by saying he cares then not talking and withdrawing.

Logic says forget him. I'm working on that. But the dream of us being together doing stuff we both love is a hard dream to see die. He has health problems and expects now to be alone forever, he says. He would rather punish me than be kind.

His choice.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sounds to me like your list and his are diametrically opposed.
Actually your first list and your expressed desires in this post don't jib well, in my mind.

Like Golden said....WTF? How can they turn it on and off like a faucet? Why do they feel once they have you hooked it's a whole new ball game?

The problem with Golden's statement is the word they. Generalizations are never a help when dealing a specific situation.

[MsSparkie]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Sounds to me like your list and his are diametrically opposed.

Tell me about it!

We are in a control struggle. I want what I want, he wants what he wants.
We both want happiness and to have lots of sex.

But it isn't gonna happen.....

Not with each other. We haven't talked for a month and half now.

In my quiet, mousey accountant way....I'm just as strong as he is. I'm sure he is surprised. He promised me a prenup that would compensate me for relocating back to Canada if we failed. He was so sure he had me bagged, tagged.

He is being a poor loser.

But I've been through enough unhappy relationships. However, I am freaking bored to tears with a "normal" guy....they just seem prissy. Before him, I was going to marry a long-haul trucker from Texas and we were going to drive team, either expedite or hot-shot, whatever paid the most per mile. Before that I married an artist who was a severe alcoholic who relapsed when he moved to Canada and was removed from my home by the police for assaulting me.

I did enjoy the adventures with each of them. No regrets.

I accept responsibility for my situation and my quandry.

LOL

I'm a nerd with a big taste for excitement. I keep getting burned. It's my fault.

IF ONLY THERE WAS A MAN AROUND WHO WAS MACHO, TOUCH, RUGGED, INTO GUNS, HUNTING, ETC. BUT ALSO KIND AND GENEROUS....A BIG BRUTE OF A MAN, BUT A SANTA CLAUS AT HEART.

LOL


I know I will never find the man of my dreams. Boohooooo.....



End of story.

From both of you, just sounds like a lot of games.
Sorry.
But, it just seems like neither of you were there for each other, just there for what you could get out of it.

[MsSparkie]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

From both of you, just sounds like a lot of games.
Sorry.
But, it just seems like neither of you were there for each other, just there for what you could get out of it.

He admittedly is a 'passive aggressive personality'.

I must do it his way or he would not speak.

I did play the game of trying to knock that stubbornness out of him, but lost, but for the best.

But with Golden, she is being hurt by the male psyche too.

We don't understand how you guys can be so different and why we can't reach you with reason. And you don't relate to us. It's not rocket science is it? LOL

Mind boggling.....

Yeah, not all men, I know.

;-)

I also admit I'm hurt, disappointed and bitter now. But working on forgiving him. For my sake as well as his.

Forgive him, but stay away.

Don't you hate it when all you get is more of the same?

No progress. I hate no progress. I hate circles.

We have to break those circles.

Funny you say that, I feel the same way, I want logic in my relationship.
If you want something just say it. Or. I'm not a mind reader. Or. How did you get that out of what I said?
Goes both ways.
I say exactly what I mean and every woman I have ever been with has had trouble with that, they always want to read a bunch of crap into everything, and they never tell me exactly what they mean. I'm supposed to "just know shit". Games... I will not play them. I've told every one I've dated that and they always said the same thing "oh, me too, hate them" and commenced to play.
Confusing.

[MsSparkie]

Women not behaving perfectly??????? Pshawwwww..... LOL

Hey, what can I say?

OK, we both need to be true to our gender. Men need to be MEN and women need to be WOMEN. When we try to blend the waters we end up with muck.

So do we not co-habit? Just conjucal visits? Well, men need the maid service and women want their cars and lawns taken care of.

So maybe if we all had a way of doing that shit, the housekeeping and mowing, we wouldn't need each other????

LOL

PS...another big factor with my recent ex is that we lived 2,000 miles apart and he wan't happy that I didn't drop my life to run to his side as I had still some mothering left to do. We were going to get married in Sturgis, then I wanted him to wait a year, with visits in between. That made him mad. He wanted the maid, nurse, sex partner instantly. I was pressured.

Anyway, big fucking disaster. But I wish it had worked out. Maybe in a year or two we will talk again. Not likely. I'll talk and he won't. LOL

What games did your gals play? Were they divas? Did you feel manipulated?
Were they honest? Were they controlling? Did they cheat on you?

How did you find less than perfect females? Sounds more like a myth to me...

hehe....

[Sundae]

My life is better for finding the Cellar...!

After a rather messy night out with a male friend last night, he sent me a couple of texts with various comments about being a better friend and helping me get my life back on track.

My immediate reaction (because of certain things not worth explaining here) was to read far too much into it. I wanted to reply saying, "Right so what you're saying...." or "What you really mean is..." I also focussed totally on how the text made me feel and blamed him for this.

Luckily I decided to sleep on it before replying, and in the morning remembered this thread. I read the texts again exactly as they were written, taking them at face value. What he wrote wasn't offensive or insulting. He was advising me as a friend because he cares.

I avoided a completely pointless row and a couple of days wasted in sulking.

[yesman065]

Well I must say MsSparkie you said:
I wanted to be cherished and adored.
I wanted to feel his strength and masculinity.
I wanted a great lover who loves to please me.
I wanted to feel respected.
I wanted to be gathered up in his strong arms.
I wanted him to tell me what he's feeling. When he did - Did you listen Did you actually hear what he said or did you infer and assume what you thought he said? More so did you hear just the parts that you wanted to hear and miss the rest of what he said?
I wanted him to feel like I'm the best thing in his life. How did you know what he was or wasn't feeling???? Perhaps he felt this way and you totally misconstrued what he said and how he said it.
I wanted him to love me with all his heart. How do you know he wasn't?

To me its more like we speak different languages at times and cannot seem to find the common ground to actually LISTEN to what we each are saying. Men tend to be rather blunt and more direct than women - very literal in their communication. Women, on the other hand, tend to be very VERY vague and hint around as to what they mean assuming their man is going to pick up on what they really mean without the woman actually saying it. This difference in communication is, to me, the root cause of more fights, arguments, frustrations and eventually break-ups than anything else. It always comes out to "He doesn't understand me" or "He doesn't listen to me." I think the best advice I was ever given was for all of us to actually say what you are thinking and don't assume your partner is a mind reader.
Men are typically very simple beings. Much more like dogs than cats - in that we are loyal to a fault, yet when harassed - - - -bite deep.

[Ibby]

One thing I notice about that list... You want to feel his masculinity, but yet that masculinity is part of the problem, if I'm not mistaken. Part of masculinity is that dumb, selfishly idiotic self-righteousness and stubbournness.

[Pangloss62]

Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket!

This string makes me sooooooo glad I'm single. Men, women, they each become really petty and insecure when they stay together to long. I'd rather be alone, really. When I look at that ever-growing "Self Help" section at the book store, or read strings like this one, I have to laugh. And to think it all started with some box vs. envelopes conflict.

[MsSparkie]

Originally Posted by yesman065

....
I wanted him to tell me what he's feeling.[/b] When he did - Did you listen Did you actually hear what he said or did you infer and assume what you thought he said? More so did you hear just the parts that you wanted to hear and miss the rest of what he said?
I wanted him to feel like I'm the best thing in his life. How did you know what he was or wasn't feeling???? Perhaps he felt this way and you totally misconstrued what he said and how he said it.
I wanted him to love me with all his heart. How do you know he wasn't?

He stopped talking. The silent treatment. There was no getting him to warm up after I said this relationship needs lots of work, but I want it to work.

He just froze into an iceman.

There is he alone, pleased with his strength.

It's a good thing it didn't go ahead, really. It would not have lasted. The slightest infraction on my part and I would be shot down hard and ignored. He enjoyed my begging but it just made me angrier that nothing could reach him.

So I stopped.

He told me not to take it personally once....he is aloof with everyone, he said. Aloof is a gross understatement.

But he is capable of sweet loving charm....but seems only for one short burst.

He used to be a repo man, payday loan officer.....never had a loan go bad except one lady who didn't pay him $500 about 10 years ago....it still made him mad. He couldn't let go.

Let's just say he isn't easy to get along with.....

But he is big and strong and brave......and....so masculine.

Too bad you can't have have that with a sweet kind heart.

Where is Golden????????? How are you doing dear?

Don't let me hog your thread....

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

My life is better for finding the Cellar...!

After a rather messy night out with a male friend last night, he sent me a couple of texts with various comments about being a better friend and helping me get my life back on track.

My immediate reaction (because of certain things not worth explaining here) was to read far too much into it. I wanted to reply saying, "Right so what you're saying...." or "What you really mean is..." I also focussed totally on how the text made me feel and blamed him for this.

Luckily I decided to sleep on it before replying, and in the morning remembered this thread. I read the texts again exactly as they were written, taking them at face value. What he wrote wasn't offensive or insulting. He was advising me as a friend because he cares.

I avoided a completely pointless row and a couple of days wasted in sulking.

Warm fuzzy!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Now, if only we could get the terrorists to listen to us.

[skysidhe]

lol bruce


Well, For me it isn't what I want to hear it is what I don't want to hear.

I don't want to be put down or played games with. I don't want to hear disfunctional need . I like the up front approach. I don't want to be made to feel anything just accepted for who I am as much as I accept another for who they are.

I don't really believe in romantic love. I believe a person can be romanced but it is part of an expression but it's not actually reality. To be taken some place out of oneself for a short amount of time is a very good thing. It's bonding but the illusion is not suppose to last. Then it's business as usual. I do think men get mixed messages at times. I've never asked a guy to be a 'manly romantic' Only that they are straight thinkers basically.