Can we start over... again? - Page 5

11-18-2003, 03:18 PM

It's rape if she feels like it was rape, or if she was mentally incapacitated in a manner that she couldn't make a decision.

Now, it's statutory rape no matter how you look at it, but statutory rape and rape are really two completely different things.

If the "victim" of it isn't furious about it, why should you be?

She didn't ask for advice.

FileNotFound · 11-18-2003, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave
It's rape if she feels like it was rape, or if she was mentally incapacitated in a manner that she couldn't make a decision.

Now, it's statutory rape no matter how you look at it, but statutory rape and rape are really two completely different things.

If the "victim" of it isn't furious about it, why should you be?

She didn't ask for advice.

Oh so what did she ask for? Another baby?

Oh right..I forget..sorry..Another chance..right that's it. So how's it working so far then? Oh right not too well...

Hmm can I give some advice on that? Yes? Ok ....

Get yourself and your life in shape without pathetic excuses like "He won't buy them!" and you'll get some respect for it..till then...enjoy

hot_pastrami · 11-18-2003, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave
If the "victim" of it isn't furious about it, why should you be?

I was in mid-reply when I read Dave's last post. That's exactly what I was going to say, but a hell of a lot more succinct.

She was 12, he was 19, so it's Statutory Rape, which isn't Rape. As the story is told, both were willing parties by the time it happened. Yes, 12 is too young to be making that sort of decision, but the guy didn't pin her down and force himself upon her. She decided to give it a go.

Hell, my story of the first time isn't so different, except I wasn't quite that young. A beautiful older woman wanted a piece of Pastrami, and though I resisted at first, she talked me into it eventually. As I look back on it, I'm not furious at her, because it was my own stupid mistake, and I was of sound mind when I made it. Plus, she was a very hot thirty-something. But regardless of the circumstances, I wouldn't play the victim card, either. Was I taken advantage of? Yes, but only because I allowed myself to be.

FileNotFound... dude... you're bashing on a 17 year old girl who is openly admitting to her mistakes. Such comments are probably not helpful or welcome. You don't have to like her, and don't have to sympathize with her, but you don't have to whip her with an emotional bike chain, either. Christ.

Dagney · 11-18-2003, 03:36 PM

Not 'furious', just adamant.

This is the comment that raised a huge red flag for me

"It was new years eve. He was drunk. I was young, stupid and curious, .at first I said no, but he kept on. No I wasn't abused as a childd. Beleive me I regret it, alot. He was 19."

She regrets it, but I don't think it was her fault. I feel sorry for her that she was taken advantage of by someone a whole lot older than her that should have known better.

That's what I'm talking about. And if it's not rape by her definition of things, more power to her, but I don't want her daughter to grow up thinking that to be treated that way is okay. And unless April learns what rape 'is', she will.

It's not something to say 'whatever' about and shrug off.

lumberjim · 11-18-2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hot_pastrami

Hell, my story of the first time isn't so different, except I wasn't quite that young. A beautiful older woman wanted a piece of Pastrami,
**
Plus, she was a very hot thirty-something. But regardless of the circumstances, I wouldn't play the victim card, either. Was I taken advantage of? Yes, but only because I allowed myself to be.

SHOW OFF!

fnf....ease up, big fella.

damn, i wish i had been paying attention to this thread today....lots o fun in here!

dave! how did you become so wise in the ways of the world? you are right on about this, and your sentiments are clearly motivated by a strong sense of justice. hats off to you, my friend.

I would not think you particularly LIKE April based on the previous r2d2/cutie/whatever that last one was thread, yet you defend her when fnf is out of line with his attack.

PS. this sounds like I'm sucking up, but I'm not....just givin the man his props....

juju · 11-18-2003, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave
if you don't have something nice to say, maybe you shouldn't say anything at all.

Have I just entered the 5th dimension?

hot_pastrami · 11-18-2003, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
Have I just entered the 5th dimension?

Yes, this is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. Age of Aquarius...

11-18-2003, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
Have I just entered the 5th dimension?

I wish, because that would mean you weren't in this dimension, posting stupid shit on the Cellar.

ladysycamore · 11-18-2003, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by april
No I never do.

Ok, so you never bothered with BC (at least before the pregnancy, but you say you do *now*, after the fact).

So, I'm reading that you wanted a baby at 17? Is this correct?

xoxoxoBruce · 11-18-2003, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave

In other words, if you don't have something nice to say, maybe you shouldn't say anything at all.

Is this a *special* thread? I can sympathize with the kid's story and situation but this isn't a group hug or therapy session. It's the internet, available to the world. More specifically the Cellar, where anyone can post their thoughts. If a person posts details of their private life, they have to accept what comes from the public, be it adoration or criticism.

In this case I think everyone will agree, she made at least one sizable mistake. The key is "made"... past tense. There's no do-overs so the real issue is the future.

My 2cents? April, you're a dumb kid and you really screwed up. Now, it sounds like you're trying to get your shit together and I really, really hope you do. For your sake and the baby's sake. It'll be hard and often discouraging but you can do it. I think the biggest mistake you could make now is another baby, so please be careful.

jeni · 11-18-2003, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FileNotFound

I mean come on. Yeah I knew a girl who got raped also, guess what she did that same day? She went to the station to report it and draft a scetch of the sob while it was fresh in her mind and get a DNA sample and got a pregnancy check several days after. Emberassing? No dobut. Responsible thing to do? Yes.

Come on dave, what has this poor april suffered that she deserves my respect and support? Her own stupidity and irresponsibility?

HEY!! guess what? NOT EVERY RAPE VICTIM FEELS UP TO REPORTING IT! not only is being raped a terrible and humiliating experience, but telling people about it is a traumatizing experience as well.

this is something you will NEVER understand unless you have been through it, not even if your wife or mother has been through it. you will NEVER understand being raped, and the slew of shitty emotions that come with it, so don't try to convince someone that it is "responsible" to go to an authority, when they are NOT THINKING CLEARLY and are definitely not worrying about telling the cops about the situation. rape is a very personal matter, and it is something that the victim will NEVER get over. not everyone is emotionally detached enough to go straight to the police about the issue.

even if april doesn't consider her situation rape, it is not your place to scold her for not reporting it.

elSicomoro · 11-18-2003, 08:07 PM

I have to go with Juju here...this thread is kinda like a Dali painting.

Interestingly enough, April's current boyfriend is also guilty of statutory rape, as the age of consent is 17 in Texas (and there's no mathematical way she could have conceived the child at 17).

Statutory rape laws mean well, but if you have two underage people consenting (like 15 and 16), why the hell bother? It should be used solely to prosecute dirty old men and women for taking advantage of the young, IMO.

April...if all this is legitimate...I do applaud you for staying in school and for having some goals for yourself. The next few years will probably be the biggest uphill battle of your life, but once you have reached your goals, I think you'll feel a great deal of satisfaction and achievement.

Having said this, your previous comments about lack of sexual education disturb me. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't taught in school, and maybe your parents didn't teach you anything either (lord knows my parents didn't), but can you honestly tell me that you haven't heard enough about the need to protect yourself from STDs and pregnancy? TV? Radio? Friends? Come on!

And then you tell us about the condom deal...that is simply irresponsible. You may love your boyfriend to death and may even want to marry him someday...but given that you're still so young, you should be protecting yourself from the possibility of an STD...because you just never know. And by the same token, unless you've had an STD/HIV test, you could have gotten something from the previous guy you were with. Condoms are cheap (even if you buy them at a drugstore) and easily available...always better to be safe than sorry.

(Actually, guys should totally use condoms to their advantage, as they can be helpful in delaying climax.)

In the end, just make sure you take care of yourself and your baby...be responsible.

(And make sure you're worshipping the ground your mom walks on for being so kind as to help take care of your baby.)

juju · 11-18-2003, 08:31 PM

Yeah, I think it's a troll.

elSicomoro · 11-18-2003, 09:12 PM

I wouldn't say she's necessarily a troll...but she's given enough reason to stir suspicion, at least in me.

wolf · 11-19-2003, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by april
I don't really like this question b/c its embarrassing....12.

Seems that at least you are recognizing on some level that this was not a good thing. At least I hope you recognize this.

11-18-2003, 03:36 PM	#64
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	Not 'furious', just adamant. This is the comment that raised a huge red flag for me "It was new years eve. He was drunk. I was young, stupid and curious, .at first I said no, but he kept on. No I wasn't abused as a childd. Beleive me I regret it, alot. He was 19." She regrets it, but I don't think it was her fault. I feel sorry for her that she was taken advantage of by someone a whole lot older than her that should have known better. That's what I'm talking about. And if it's not rape by her definition of things, more power to her, but I don't want her daughter to grow up thinking that to be treated that way is okay. And unless April learns what rape 'is', she will. It's not something to say 'whatever' about and shrug off. __________________ The Constitution gives every American the right to make a total fool out of himself. But that doesn't mean you need to. Last edited by Dagney; 11-18-2003 at 03:45 PM.

11-18-2003, 08:07 PM	#72
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I have to go with Juju here...this thread is kinda like a Dali painting. Interestingly enough, April's current boyfriend is also guilty of statutory rape, as the age of consent is 17 in Texas (and there's no mathematical way she could have conceived the child at 17). Statutory rape laws mean well, but if you have two underage people consenting (like 15 and 16), why the hell bother? It should be used solely to prosecute dirty old men and women for taking advantage of the young, IMO. April...if all this is legitimate...I do applaud you for staying in school and for having some goals for yourself. The next few years will probably be the biggest uphill battle of your life, but once you have reached your goals, I think you'll feel a great deal of satisfaction and achievement. Having said this, your previous comments about lack of sexual education disturb me. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't taught in school, and maybe your parents didn't teach you anything either (lord knows my parents didn't), but can you honestly tell me that you haven't heard enough about the need to protect yourself from STDs and pregnancy? TV? Radio? Friends? Come on! And then you tell us about the condom deal...that is simply irresponsible. You may love your boyfriend to death and may even want to marry him someday...but given that you're still so young, you should be protecting yourself from the possibility of an STD...because you just never know. And by the same token, unless you've had an STD/HIV test, you could have gotten something from the previous guy you were with. Condoms are cheap (even if you buy them at a drugstore) and easily available...always better to be safe than sorry. (Actually, guys should totally use condoms to their advantage, as they can be helpful in delaying climax.) In the end, just make sure you take care of yourself and your baby...be responsible. (And make sure you're worshipping the ground your mom walks on for being so kind as to help take care of your baby.) Last edited by elSicomoro; 11-18-2003 at 08:11 PM.

11-18-2003, 03:18 PM	#61
dave Guest Posts: n/a	It's rape if she feels like it was rape, or if she was mentally incapacitated in a manner that she couldn't make a decision. Now, it's statutory rape no matter how you look at it, but statutory rape and rape are really two completely different things. If the "victim" of it isn't furious about it, why should you be? She didn't ask for advice.

11-18-2003, 08:31 PM	#73
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Yeah, I think it's a troll.

11-18-2003, 09:12 PM	#74
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I wouldn't say she's necessarily a troll...but she's given enough reason to stir suspicion, at least in me.

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