Do You Own a Gun?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Radar

False. Your rights end where another person's begin, but you do not "give up" your rights to be accepted in society. Society has no rights. Society is a collection of individuals. Individuals have no legitimate authority or power to deny another person to exercise their rights. They therefore can't legitimately grant this power to government.

What are you talking about?

Not like I had much choice since I was born here but I gave up my right to drink under the age of 21, use marijuana, have grenades, have nuclear weapons, kill someone, rape someone, hold whoever I want prisoner, own someone, and millions of other "rights" to live here without getting fined or going to jail.

Do you have a right to own a nuclear weapon? Why can't I own nuclear weapons? Because I decided to live in a society where nuclear weapons are outlawed therefore I gave up my right to own nuclear weapons to live in my society.


I have to agree 100% with Shawnee123 on this one. Rights are just like ethics, something that is made up by society. Also, you can not confuse philosophy (rights, ethics) with science (gravity, evolution) because one will disappear once humans are gone and the other will continue until heat death.

[somekind]

I own a Beretta automatic, but I keep it unloaded, and never shoot it.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Do I have the right to shoot and kill you?

Only if I am violating your right to life, liberty, and property. You only have the right to kill in your own defense.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

What are you talking about?

Not like I had much choice since I was born here but I gave up my right to drink under the age of 21, use marijuana, have grenades, have nuclear weapons, kill someone, rape someone, hold whoever I want prisoner, own someone, and millions of other "rights" to live here without getting fined or going to jail.

Do you have a right to own a nuclear weapon? Why can't I own nuclear weapons? Because I decided to live in a society where nuclear weapons are outlawed therefore I gave up my right to own nuclear weapons to live in my society.


I have to agree 100% with Shawnee123 on this one. Rights are just like ethics, something that is made up by society. Also, you can not confuse philosophy (rights, ethics) with science (gravity, evolution) because one will disappear once humans are gone and the other will continue until heat death.

What are YOU talking about? Yes, You do have the right to smoke marijuana. You also have the right to drink alcohol when you've reached the age of majority (18), and you have the right own grenades, and even nukes as long as you don't use them to infringe on the rights of others and you can ensure that your neighbors are not harmed by radiation caused by them.

All laws against any of these things is a violation of our rights and is a violation of the U.S. Constitution and natural law. You haven't given up your right to own nukes. You may choose not to exercise them, and they you may have your rights violated by being prevented from owning them by force, but this does not mean you don't have the right or that you've given up the right.

Your rights can't be bought, sold, taken, given, or voted away. If every person in the world voted for gravity to go away, we'd still have gravity tomorrow, and the same is true of our rights.

You do not have the right to rape, kill, imprison, or own people because this violates their rights. Your rights end where another person's begin. They don't come from government and government has no legitimate authority to limit our rights. This means you couldn't have given up a right or even chosen not to exercise it because you never had such a right.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Radar

Only if I am violating your right to life, liberty, and property. You only have the right to kill in your own defense.

Property? Own defense? Are you saying that we were born with the right to have "stuff" and kill to keep our "stuff"?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Radar

... You also have the right to drink alcohol when you've reached the age of majority (18)...

Why not before 18? Who determines the age of majority?

[Radar]

We own ourselves. Our property is an extension of ourselves. It is the fruits of our labor. Our right to defend ourselves extends to our property as well. And yes, if someone tries to take our property by force, we have the right to use any level of force necessary to stop them up to and including deadly force. For instance, if government agents tried to steal my house, I'd be within my rights to kill them if they refused to go away.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Radar

...You do not have the right to rape, kill, imprison, or own people because this violates their rights. Your rights end where another person's begin. They don't come from government and government has no legitimate authority to limit our rights. This means you couldn't have given up a right or even chosen not to exercise it because you never had such a right.

Do I have the right to have sex with animals? To commit suicide? Is running a stop sign infringing on others' rights, if no one else is at the intersection?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Why not before 18? Who determines the age of majority?

This is a gray area. In some cultures the age of majority (consent) is recognized as 13, or 16, etc. but in America, and England before that, for hundreds and hundreds of years, it's been generally accepted to be 18.

Children have rights, but their parents are their stewards and get to make all decisions over their life (unless those decisions endanger their children or otherwise violate their rights) until they reach the age of majority in their particular culture. I suppose if you move out when you're 16 and are paying your own bills, you are an adult and can consume what you please.

No person or group of people, regardless of their number, has any legitimate authority to tell another person what they will or won't do with their own body, what they will or won't consume (assuming what they are consuming was obtained honestly), what medical procedures they will have, which consenting adults they will or won't have sex with, etc.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Radar

We own ourselves. Our property is an extension of ourselves. It is the fruits of our labor. Our right to defend ourselves extends to our property as well. And yes, if someone tries to take our property by force, we have the right to use any level of force necessary to stop them up to and including deadly force. For instance, if government agents tried to steal my house, I'd be within my rights to kill them if they refused to go away.

What if they just want to steal your gum? Hubba Bubba?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Do I have the right to have sex with animals? To commit suicide? Is running a stop sign infringing on others' rights, if no one else is at the intersection?

Yes, you have the right to have sex with animals, assuming you own the animals in question. And yes, since you own yourself and your life, you have every right to end it if you choose. You also have the right to prostitute yourself, to gamble, to marry your cousin (even if they are the same gender), etc.

You have the right to do ANYTHING you want as long as your actions do not infringe on the person, property, or rights of non-consenting others.

You do not have the right to run a stop sign because you could endanger others, even if you don't see them and believe an intersection is empty.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

What if they just want to steal your gum? Hubba Bubba?

My guess is I could find a level of force less than deadly force that would make them give up the gum, or I could use the force of my servants (government) to handle it for me.

[Undertoad]

How are we born with rights? Did a little certificate pop out with your little head?

Originally Posted by Thom Jefferson

We hold these truths to be self-evident,

that all men are created equal,

that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,
deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,...

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Thom Jefferson
We hold these truths to be self-evident,

that all men are created equal,

that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,
deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,...

Tom, you're entitled to your own opinion. The guy down the block feels differently, though. I like the "pursuit of happiness" concept - run with that a little.

[Radar]

The basis of all the laws in America is the recognition (not the creation) that we are born with unalienable rights. Our rights don't come from "society" or from "government" and most certainly aren't a concept or an opinion. They are a reality and are tangible.

Just as gravity existed before Newton "discovered" it, so did our rights before men talked about them or recognized them.